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The Happy Hour Podcast, hosted by Shannon Jamail.

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EP 239 Beyond the Logo: Branding That Sells Retreats with Kara Hollinger

Your brand is more than a logo—it's the energy, clarity, and trust that sells out your retreats before you even open registration.

In this episode, Shannon sits down with Kara Hollinger, founder and creative director of Made Outside, to explore how powerful branding and a cohesive online presence directly influence retreat success.

They dig into:

Why authenticity is your brand’s biggest asset
How storytelling builds trust and drives bookings
Common branding mistakes retreat leaders make
Aligning your website, social media, and messaging to serve your ideal client
How to communicate your value so people are ready to buy

Kara also shares a 20% discount on branding packages exclusively for podcast listeners—don’t

Connect with Kara: www.madeoutside.com
Talk about this podcast and get 20% off

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

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Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. And today I've got an amazing guest on the show that I am so excited to dig into our topic today because I feel like if it wasn't already so very important, it's becoming more and more important every day in the business world that we live in. So welcome, Kara to the show.

Kara 00:00:46 Thank you for having me, Shannon. Excited to be here.

Shannon 00:00:49 I'm so excited you're here. So Kara Hollinger is on the show. And do you just want to take a moment to tell us, like, who you are? What brought you here? Like, talk to us about who you are.

Kara 00:00:59 Definitely. My background is in brand development and design as well as strategy, and I started Made outside. I'm the founder and we specialize in building brands with authenticity, transparency and trust so that the consumer will lean into that purpose and story and then choose you over another competitor. So in most cases, that level of authenticity and storytelling is what drives a consumer into the purchasing ability. And so through design and award winning design, I was able to actually take my intuition and my understanding of marketability and then design and merge that with design, which has been a really great outcome for our clients. And I'm a big supporter of wellness and retreats and leadership. And I think that combining brand purpose into, you know, whether it's a retreat or a leader or even a brand is the key to success in today's market, where it's very convoluted, it's hard to tell who's authentic or who isn't. And that's what we do for all of our clients. And we've had really great success.

Shannon 00:02:06 I love this. Okay, so I love this for so many reasons, but especially because just like you mentioned, like if you are not presenting yourself in an authentic but also appealing way specifically to your demographic, then you are missing the boat.

Shannon 00:02:24 And I know that a lot of things that you work on is brand strategy and social media presence, as well as website presence. And I think, I think it gets really underrated in the retreat world. I think people just put together a very, in my very humble opinion, a crappy landing page that has maybe a couple of pictures that do not look as good as they should look. and it's just, I mean, I see more and more of them and I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, there's an investment that has to be made in this business if you are wanting to it to be a business. And everybody knows that I'm big on like I, I don't do retreats for a hobby. I don't teach people how to do retreats for hobby. I teach you to do it as a business. And part of business in this world is investing in your social media and your website presence and brand strategy. Because I feel like it's got to tell a story. All of this has to tell a story.

Kara 00:03:16 Definitely. And the world of templated websites and put something up with, you know, Squarespace or Wix. Those types of solutions do exist, and they can be successful, but only if they're brought into authenticity and something that's unique for you. Because if we all land on something that feels the same or doesn't feel authentic or is just another batch of stock photos, it's going to be really hard to get somebody to invest their time and money to stop what they're doing, fly and try. They're seeking something to go to a retreat they're seeking. And if you can't collectively tell them what they're going to get in a way that feels safe and authentic, then they're going to start to look elsewhere, or they're going to start to overthink the decision and then possibly not juju at all. So getting to the heart of what makes you different and why you started the retreat, or why this solution is going to be good for the person coming. That is the key to all of it. And you can do that.

Kara 00:04:10 So simply with just words and visuals, it doesn't have to be a whole big investment. It's really about how you tell that story and then making sure it doesn't look like everyone else that you're seeing out there.

Shannon 00:04:22 I couldn't agree more. So I the way I do my retreat bookings is probably a little different than some people. As far as they don't have to talk to me, they don't have to set an appointment with me. They don't have to be pre-screened by me. I just don't run those types of retreats. There are a there's a time and place for that. But I share that with you because people who don't know me at all are literally. I mean, I'll get on my my registration forms. Where did you find me? Google. So they're finding me and they're booking because of my landing page, because of my messaging, because of my image, because of the story, because of how I'm marketing them. And so that's the bulk of my registrations, or pretty close to 6,570%.

Shannon 00:05:00 The other 25 to 30% is coming from referral or repeat guest. Or they've been listening to me and following me a long time, whatever. But the bulk of my my retreats are registrations are coming because of how my messaging is reaching them and the way that it's presented. And so when I tell you this is so important, I mean, this is so important. And even if you are someone, a host who, you know, you want to interview them first, they have to apply, they have to whatever. It's still the same thing. They're not even going to fill up that form to set an appointment with you if your messaging doesn't resonate, if it looks like, you know, a junior high schooler, put the whole thing together. You know what I mean? And I see this a lot in the retreat space where it's like, I don't know why my retreats not filling. I'm like, well, we're just going to start here. There's probably a whole lot of other stuff going on.

Shannon 00:05:50 But also we're going to start right here. And I love that you talked about trust and authenticity Because I think you and I both know we live in the world now, where if we hear about a company or an organization or anybody we're going to give our money to, where's the first place we look? Nowadays it's social media. You know what I mean? Yes, it's their website, but we usually are on their website, and then we go find them on social media to really validate who they are. What are your thoughts on that.

Kara 00:06:17 100% and the consistency between both stops, as well as how you email or solicit, has to be consistent and equally as professional. So somebody reached out to me recently and I thought it was very engaging. But then I went and found them on social and it was filled with stuff that was not authentic. It was really sloppy and done by I, and I immediately bounced. And so that originality is as important and the sales not going to come through just your site.

Kara 00:06:45 It is through learning and engaging as well as social hearing, trust building and the social aspect has to reassure them that where they're coming, It's not just safe. Like, am I going to get hurt? But it's safe. Like I'm making the right investment. And is this what I'm looking for? Because when people are out there seeking these types of scenarios, they're actually looking to either feel better, find vision, reset, meet people. a lot of it's around feeling better, but it could be a series of just letting go. It could be. But if you don't show up and understand what you signed up for, or if what you see online is actually authentic to the experience you're going to get when you show up, it's that validation on social that actually confirms a sale. So 100%, and just so everybody knows, a brand is not a logo. A brand is how you show up as a company or as a person in every aspect the photography, your voice, your social, how you, send them the materials to get ready for the retreat, to how you answer the phone.

Kara 00:07:53 It's all important. And that brand as a whole needs to look and feel the same across all platforms. And if it doesn't, it doesn't have to be custom. With a big, huge website. It could be a simple website, but the visuals and the storytelling needs to be simple and consistent across all touchpoints.

Shannon 00:08:11 Oh, okay, now you're really talking my language because it's not just a one stop. It's not just the website, although that typically is. The starting point is sometimes it might be the social. That's the starting point, but they're quickly going to make their way to the website. They're going to make their way to both. Right. Period. It's 100%. So yeah. So there's multiple touch points. And then also the communication right away. Like if they make contact with you, what does that communication look like when they register. The whole process is part of your brand. And I'm so glad that you are clarifying that it's not a logo. I can't tell you how many times people get caught up in my in what my logo is.

Shannon 00:08:40 That's everything. Listen, it's a very small. Believe it or not, part of the picture, right?

Kara 00:08:45 It's like one pillar of your body, you know, it's like it's a small piece of the thing. And it's important that it resonates too. But people aren't going to hire you because of your logo. They're going to hire you because of how you feel. And if you have that element of attraction or law of attraction that bring you in, that is 100% aligned on every touchpoint. Because if it's really cool here, then they go somewhere else and they're getting a different experience. You automatically lost trust and that's why the consistency is key.

Shannon 00:09:14 Yeah I so agree. So I love this. So we're talking about that. Your website has a look and feel and verbiage and energy to it. So should your social media match. So should your emails show. So should all. Everything should match that look and feel and energy that you are trying to create. And I think sometimes we don't know what that even is or how it should look.

Shannon 00:09:37 Unless we work with someone like you or an organization that can help us see that. Because sometimes we just get caught up in the logo or, you know, whatever it is. And we're thinking, I'm going to just do this on Canva. I'm going to create a logo, pick a couple colors, and then I'm done.

Kara 00:09:53 Exactly. And I am a big believer in Canva and we use it. We personally don't use it. We set our clients up with Canva templates. Once we're done doing our job so that that consistency piece is key. And you have to think of it as, how you meet anybody. Like you're going to go and say, hi, my name is Karen. Wait outside. But that's not enough. Like, you need to speak of who you are and why you're different in order to get attention. And it's the same for your brand. So like, just because I people like my dress and I dress very simple today, but say that was a compliment. They're not going to hire me because of my dress, they're going to hire me because of the whole picture.

Kara 00:10:32 And that's why that logo is it's important that it doesn't, you know, it's legible, it's attractive. It doesn't feel dated, it doesn't feel too trendy. Like those are things that we need to look for for the logo. But that is like third of importance as to the whole picture. And that consistency and transparency is really reigning above the way the logo looks and what your color palette is. And I get asked a lot of times. Like we just see the logo on an updated color palette and I'm like, okay, but then you're going to need these things. And so we have to coach them on. When they put that new logo somewhere, it's not going to spike sales. It's not going to spike the call. What's going to spike that? Is that again I hear you I feel you I see you. That is the piece that is the component that you want to reach your consumers. And if you can figure out how to word that and how to make it feel like that through your brand, your sales will increase and you will get stickier.

Kara 00:11:27 And they not only will love it, but then they're going to come and they're going to get the experience. They expected it, and they're going to go home and tell the people, and then they're also going to share it on social. So that viral ness is important in that first step.

Shannon 00:11:39 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yes. Okay, so I love this because a lot of retreat leaders don't know how to word it.

Shannon 00:12:25 They don't. They don't know how to position it. They're like, well, here's here's they hopefully know who they can serve, right? Who their ideal guest is. Hopefully they know that and they know the problem that they can solve or solve for that person, but then they don't know where to go from there. And is that something that you and your group does that they can help?

Kara 00:12:42 Conditioning is is everything, to be honest. and we really want that to be stable and established and and Attractive before the visuals ever get involved. because that like, you need to think of not what you like, not your personal style and your personal preference. You need to think of what the person you're wanting to show up needs and what they need to see and feel. And again, you got to know the emotion. Every retreats different. Some are more fitness, some are more wellness, some are more mental health, some are more silent. You know, relaxation. But what are what is their pain point? And then the moment you can position yourself to build trust and authenticity around their pain point, that's the position is like what you do, how you do it and why you're different.

Kara 00:13:29 And then if you can say that in a way that's compelling and interesting and attractive, it's, it's a it's a home run, because then all of the visuals back that up. And so then that's why the logo is, is like a piece of it. It's all the messaging and all the little graphics and all the things that really instill and insinuate what it is that makes you different is how that brand look and feel. And consistency starts to build. Because if you just start creating pretty things, you're going to, again, blend in, because there's a lot of pretty things out there. But what you need to do is, is match that message with how it's going to feel. And then the visuals come into play. And I mean, I'm an award winning designer. So for years I thought design was everything. And then as I started to own my own businesses and help thousands of businesses, I realized the positioning and the strategy behind how you're going out and getting the business is the success component.

Kara 00:14:21 And then the visuals, I mean, it's it's really amazing once you have that positioning, right, how far the visuals take off and how easy it is, it's like there's no overthinking. You're just doing because you have a North Star that you're following, and then that North Star is solving the pain point and the problem of who you're trying to attract in.

Shannon 00:14:41 Yes, I really do believe I mean, I with all, every fiber of my being, I believe one of the biggest struggles for retreat leaders is this it's their marketing message. It's there. It's their brand. It's the look and feel of what they're trying to communicate. And. And I feel like they struggle the most with this. And this is where they get the most stuck. And they just put something together and then wonder why it's not working. And so please hear me when I say this for my listeners. Like, this is where you are stuck. I, I promise this is probably where you're stuck and you're thinking you're not getting sales because of your price, or you're thinking you're not getting sales because of the location or whatever.

Shannon 00:15:21 And it's probably 99.9% of the time. It's the branding, and the messaging is falling flat. It's not reaching who it's supposed to reach. It's not consistent. It's not vibrant. It's not the energy you're trying to create. You're not attracting the people you want to attract because it's just not hitting the mark. So I'm so glad you're talking about it.

Kara 00:15:40 Yeah, 100%. And again, you can go to Squarespace and build a website over a weekend. And and it could be very successful if you have the positioning and an authentic voice and really great visuals. It's not the methodology of how you do it. There's a lot of ways such as Canva, such as AI, to get there, but you have to start with that base of of being different. Like if you look like everyone else, there's nothing to sink your teeth into that makes you stand out. And especially when you start to advertise. Because if you start putting money into that and then you start soliciting people to land, that ad could be the best looking ad ever.

Kara 00:16:20 And it could say, but if they land on your website and then it doesn't feel like that, or you're not answering those questions, they're going to bounce and your bounce rate will be so high because they're going to land on something that doesn't feel safe, authentic, or, you know, matching their pain points. And so that that's why the the visuals kind of come in second or sometimes there.

Shannon 00:16:40 I really do think that you're exactly right. And do you have to hire a professional? Maybe not. But here's where I think the struggle is, is they they don't have the skill set if I'm being honest. They just don't like I have to. I have to partner with someone I don't. Just my skill set is what I deliver at the retreat and what I teach people to do. But when it comes to exact marketing branding strategy, I have to bring in someone else for my own stuff. I can see other people's better than my own stuff, right? It's that's what happens sometimes. and so working with a, an organization or a partner or somebody who knows how to do that, I think is really, really valuable, especially if, as a retreat leader, you're sitting here going, why am I not getting the sales? What is happening? And if you're truly consistently showing up but you're not getting the the traction you think it is almost most likely to do with your branding and your messaging.

Shannon 00:17:33 It's just falling flat.

Kara 00:17:35 100% I agree. And we help people. And one of the things that makes us uniquely different is we will work with what's working and help you with the roadblocks that aren't or the gaps. So it's not like you have to come to us and we have to do it all or we won't work with you. We actually look at what's working and what brand equity you have, and in some cases, there's a lot that's working and we can kind of just come in and we don't Band-Aid. We actually solve it and we look at the problems and then we look out also not where are you now? Where are you going? So everything we're building and creating is actually giving you legs to get to where your ultimate vision is so that you don't have to redo this like the goal of branding. And most of our clients are in ten plus years. Not only are they still coming back to help them grow, but they're not coming back to rebrand. And that is because the level of who they are and what they do is so clear and it's timeless.

Kara 00:18:30 It doesn't feel trendy or attached to something that's popular today. It actually feels, you know, something that could have been five years ago, 20 years from now. It just feels safe and seen. And that is another key to this whole thing, is to stay far away from very heavy trends, because it will make you go through this process again and again.

Shannon 00:18:52 Yes, yes. Gosh, I so agree with that. Well, Miss Kara, if somebody wanted to work with you, do you have something special for them? I think you mentioned.

Kara 00:19:01 I did earlier. You're offering 20% to anybody that finds us through this podcast. We have lots of packages everywhere, from positioning to visuals to positioning, visuals and a website. We can do them in an intensive process as quick as a week or two, or we can spread it out and do a larger scale project that can take a couple of months. But we understand that these types of projects are kind of hot and they're ready to go. So we have figured out ways for us to build packages specific to retreats and wellness groups.

Kara 00:19:33 That can happen as fast as you guys need us to. And we do that hands on one on one. And we have a really specific staff that helps and handles these types of clients. And I am the creative director, founder leader of made and you will work with me individually, and then my staff helps execute all the way to the end. And I am with the project from the beginning to the end. So that's another thing that differentiates us. And we are offering 20% off of any package. If you find us through this podcast.

Shannon 00:20:03 Awesome! Well, her website is made outside, but it will also be in the show notes, so I highly, highly recommend that you take her up on this offer because more than likely, if you are not hitting where you are wanting to hit, it has something to do with your branding, marketing strategy and your messaging and where it's falling flat. So Kara, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.

Kara 00:20:27 Absolutely, Shannon, thank you for having me.

Kara 00:20:29 And I look forward to helping all of your guests.

Shannon 00:20:33 Thanks for listening to the Retreat Leaders podcast. Learn more at the retreat. See you next time.

Outgrowing Clients & Owning Your Worth as a Retreat Leader with Raisah Bickram

In this empowering episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by retreat host and business coach Raisah Salima Bickram for a deeply honest conversation about evolution, alignment, and energetic pricing in the retreat world.

Together, they unpack what it means to outgrow clients, roles, and retreat formats—and how to move forward in integrity and confidence. Raisah shares her journey of raising her prices, honoring her worth, and navigating the guilt that can come with letting go of what no longer fits. Shannon and Raisah also dive into:

Pricing from a place of energy and impact (not fear)
Why fair pricing supports sustainability and transformation
Offering scholarships without compromising profitability
How to create aligned, soul-led retreats that evolve with you
Standing firm in your message—even when trends suggest otherwise

Whether you're a seasoned retreat leader or stepping into your first offering, this episode will inspire you to lead from a place of power, purpose, and authenticity

About Raisah: Raisah Salima Bickram is a Spiritual Mentor and Business Coach who activates visionary women into their highest leadership and timeline. She is the founder of The Mind, Body + Soul Experience (The MBSX) and has designed and led over 30 retreats worldwide- ranging from intimate day experiences to transformative weekend immersions and international journeys. Her work explores themes of identity, expansion, healing, and the embodiment of sovereign leadership—guiding women to become the CEOs of their own lives.

A certified somatic yoga teacher, sound healer, and Reiki Master, Raisah specializes in trauma-informed practices that create safe, sacred spaces for deep alchemy work. Her journey began in September 2020 with a pop-up backyard day retreat in Long Island, NY, where 18 attendees gathered. What started as a local gathering quickly evolved into a global movement.

Since then, Raisah has guided retreats across the Caribbean Sea to the Indian Ocean, cultivating a community of clients who are drawn to soul work, sacred play, and exploration. Through her retreats, mentorship, and coaching, she supports women in unlocking their gifts, stepping into aligned leadership, and coming home to their truest selves.

Today, Raisah continues to serve as a global retreat leader, business & mindset coach, and yoga teacher, weaving spirituality and strategy to empower women to rise into their fullest expression.

Connect with Raisah: http://Thembsx.com

Instagram: @mbsx_raisah

Special Offer: $200 off her Sedona retreat + free identity activation session for the first 3 bookings

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps by PodSqueeze:

Guest Introduction: Raisa (00:01:34)
Raisa introduces herself, her work as a business coach, spiritual mentor, and retreat leader.

Defining Outgrowing Clients, Spaces, and Seasons (00:02:32)
Discussion on what it means to outgrow clients, spaces, and seasons in business.

The Discomfort and Necessity of Growth (00:03:00)
Raisa uses the analogy of outgrowing shoes to explain the discomfort and necessity of growth.

Letting Go and Aligning with New Clients (00:04:26)
Exploring the importance of letting go of old clients and attracting those aligned with your current value.

Fears Around Outgrowing and Raising Prices (00:06:58)
Shannon discusses common fears: hurting clients and fear of not replacing them when raising prices.

Accessibility, Pricing, and Scholarships (00:08:31)
Raisa and Shannon discuss making retreats accessible, pricing for value, and offering scholarships.

Energetic Reciprocity and Industry Impact (00:14:15)
Shannon emphasizes the harm of undercharging and the importance of energetic exchange in pricing.

Energetic Alignment and Personal Pricing (00:16:15)
Discussion on how pricing should feel energetically aligned and unique to each leader.

Evolving Offerings and Audience (00:18:19)
How evolving retreat experiences naturally calls in a different audience over time.

Authenticity and Co-Creation in Business (00:19:40)
Raisa discusses the importance of alignment and authenticity in creating retreat experiences.

Magnetizing Your Ideal Clients (00:21:29)
How being rooted in your message and expression attracts the right clients.

Staying True to Your Vision (00:22:31)
Shannon shares an example of a retreat leader staying true to her unique retreat format.

Leadership, Trust, and Not Diluting Your Offer (00:24:19)
Raisa talks about sovereign leadership, authenticity, and trusting your vision.

Setting Boundaries for Retreat Structure (00:26:44)
Advice on not allowing partial attendance at retreats to maintain integrity of the experience.

Raisa’s Upcoming Retreats and Offerings (00:27:10)
Raisa shares details about her upcoming Sedona retreat and her new Retreat Mastery program.

Special Offers and How to Connect (00:29:44)
Information on special offers for listeners and how to connect with Raisa online.

Closing and Call to Action (00:30:57)
Shannon wraps up the episode, encourages reviews, and shares where to find more resources.

EP 238 Beyond the Retreat: Hybrid Business Models for Maximum Impact with Alison Katschkowsky

Can you build a retreat business that isn’t bound by location—and actually expands your impact?

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon chats with long-time health and fitness expert Alison Katschkowsky about building a hybrid retreat business model that combines the power of in-person transformation with the scalability of online programs.

Alison shares her 30+ year journey from brick-and-mortar fitness to digital expansion, and how she now helps other entrepreneurs add retreats as a powerful layer to their business—without overhauling their structure.

They dive into:

The power of hybrid models (and how they outlive fads)
How retreats can enhance your brand, not distract from it
Creative ways to offer transformation in both in-person and online formats
Alison’s behind-the-scenes plan for her luxe Amalfi Coast retreat

If you’ve been wondering how to blend the best of both worlds—connection and scale—this episode is your blueprint.

Retreats aren’t just an event—they’re a business growth strategy.

Connect with Alison

https://thealisonk.com/meet-alison

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Today I am so excited to say that not only do I have an amazing guest, but she's becoming an amazing friend and soon to be business partner, which we cannot wait to talk about that we're going to drop some little, little hints about what we have in store. But Alison, welcome to the show again.

Alison 00:00:49 It is always a good day in my world when I can talk to you, Shannon. So it's.

Shannon 00:00:52 All good. Amen. I feel the same. So, Allison, why don't you just refresh for those who maybe did hear your show or just let people know who you are and what brought you to this point.

Alison 00:01:05 My name is Allison Koski, and you don't have to say that. For those of you listening, most people just say Allison K. But just so you know, when you look at my last name, the c h is silent. So it's really just Katz Koski. So it's a little bit easier to say, but Allison K works. So so and I my background is in health and fitness. I've been in the health and fitness industry for over 30 years. I was a very successful brick and mortar business owner for a lot of those years, until I started going online about ten years ago. That's about when I started doing retreats. It was probably 2013, 2014, something in there when it was really still a very new concept. And so what I figured out was, is that the big question back then was, is do we need to just now that online is becoming big and everyone was moving their business online. It was like, you know, well, we're just going to go in this direction.

Alison 00:01:56 And so my argument was always, you don't have to choose one. You can do both. And then when the pandemic hit, everybody went online. And now what's interesting is, is that everybody's going back to adding some kind of in-person, because you and I are both seeing this in the retreat space. It's just it's blowing up there. Everybody and their mother is thinking about retreats now, which is great. It's great for us. It's great for the industry. But but I just think there is there is a lot of opportunity there for so many people.

Shannon 00:02:24 I love this. One of the things that Alison and I talked about before we recorded is, is kind of the topics which Alison and I could spend, honestly, you guys weeks on this podcast talking about business and retreats and, and all of that good stuff. but one of the things I thought would be really relevant is a hybrid model. And Alison, you are the queen of this. You help people build this. So tell me what that looks like for the retreat industry.

Shannon 00:02:49 What does that even mean when I when we say hybrid model?

Alison 00:02:51 Before I get to that, let me just kind of give my little analogy when I talk about the hybrid model, when we think about a hybrid model, what are we really talking about? We're really talking the best example I can offer for people because I'm a big analogy person. The best example I can offer for people is think about the hybrid car. What is the hybrid car? Do the hybrid car allows you to use gas or electricity? Right. So it's both. And so one of the selling points is because it's a hybrid model, the car can go further. You can get further on a tank of gas. Therefore it's the maintenance is better right. It will cost you less in gas in the long run. So you see there, not the car. Literally. There's no choice made as to whether or not you go one or the other. The same thing is true when we do the hybrid business model in our business.

Alison 00:03:39 Now back in 2012, 2013, 2014, when the online space was really blowing up, this is when social media was really becoming the thing. you know, a lot of people were starting to think this is kind of the direction that I want to go with my business. And in my industry, it was blowing up like crazy. Then what happened when the pandemic hit It is that everybody went online. And the good news is, is that we could go online because it was available. But the bad news is, is that people sort of got away from being in person. And now what we're seeing because it's 2025, is that really the best combination? The best plan is to combine both. And one of the things that I started doing back when the online space was really getting big was that I started slowly dipping my toe in the water of online. And what did that look like? It looked like offering like online challenges, like connecting with people online. And then of course, when the pandemic hit, it was like you had to go all in.

Alison 00:04:38 And for me and a lot of other people in my industry, I had to basically start over. Basically my business as I knew it went out the window, but it was time for me to put my money where my mouth was and really make it work. And that's what I did. And that's one of the things that I really teach my clients how to do today, because you don't have to choose. That's the beauty of it.

Shannon 00:04:57 That is the beauty of it is that you don't have to choose, Jews, especially today. Because you're right, Alison. You know, years ago, I mean, well, to be honest with you, years ago, the online business was not, you know, obviously what it is today, but you kind of felt like you had to fall into one or the other categories. So you're you're absolutely right. Tell me.

Alison 00:05:15 there are a lot of people today that still feel like you have to fall into one or the other, because these are conversations I have every day with people when they say, well, I can't really be myself online, I can't really.

Alison 00:05:25 It just doesn't feel the same. I'm not good at it. Or they'll say about in person, well, that's just not really what I do. This is what I'm used to. And this is kind of the conundrum that we found ourselves in.

Shannon 00:05:36 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yeah totally agree. I hear that all the time. As well as just people saying, well, my business is online, they're not going to want to meet in person, or the other way around.

Shannon 00:06:26 You know, everything I do is in person. So you're right. It is. Sometimes we get pigeonholed and we just assume that it has to be in that that way. Can you? Can you give us an example of maybe somebody you've worked with and like what this looks like in real life when somebody is considering it a hybrid model?

Alison 00:06:41 Well, I mean, there are actually lots of examples. But one example pretty much right now is I have a client right now who has an in-person, primarily in-person business. This is how people work with her. They come to see her, they book an appointment with her. She has some online resources, like she has an e-book and she has some other things, but it's really hardly the same thing as having an experience with her. And one of the things that we're actually working on right now is building out a retreat piece to go with her in-person business. Now, that might not seem like a typical hybrid model, but what she has to do is literally build an online presence to go with that in-person offering.

Alison 00:07:21 Because in order to offer retreats, if you have a successful in-person business, is is that you have to be always reaching more people. So this is something else that we hear a lot of people say where they say, well, I don't know that my people would want to go on a retreat. I don't know if my people would want to do something in person. And so my question is always, how do you know that they don't? And so what we have to always ask ourselves is, what are we doing to consistently put ourselves out there and have us meet more people and expand our audience? And that's really what it's all about too.

Shannon 00:07:53 I'm biased, of course, but for me, if there's anyone that I trust and I work with in any capacity or just consume their information. I would love to fucking get in person. You know what I mean? Like, whether it's a conference or a mastermind or a retreat, whatever it is. I mean, I don't, you know. Yes, there are I'm sure there are people in this world who are incredibly introverted.

Shannon 00:08:14 And just like that just makes their skin crawl. But for the most part, I think there's a good audience for anybody doing anything online that they could create an in-person experience.

Alison 00:08:26 Yeah, and the energy is just different when you're in person. Like, think about it, when you go to an in-person event, it's very different than if you're on a, say, a zoom call or a group networking session or something online where you see everybody's faces and they're just, you know, squares on the screen. You can still talk to people because I think human connection can still be meaningful that way. But it's not the same thing from being in person.

Shannon 00:08:49 I agree, I agree, and I'm grateful. Right? We're grateful that we have these online tools that we can do these things. But I'll be honest with you. so I belong to Genius Network. It's an incredible Networking group. It's really a servant group. That's just incredible. And every month we meet either online or in person, you can choose one or the other.

Shannon 00:09:07 Right. So that it fits your schedule. And I'm super. I hope they don't hear this. But the online I like minimize it. I'm doing other work. It's still just as good information. It's just badass. But I'm over here multitasking. I'm answering text messages whatever. The in person lights my fire so much that when I get back home I am like, bring it! We are. We're fixing to make some shit happen. And so yes, am I grateful that we have the tools available? Absolutely. do do I think, though, that we get more or at least a very vibrant, different, action packed energy from in person? Yes, I do.

Alison 00:09:47 Yeah. And I just think that to piggyback on what you just said and to sort of finish my thought from before is that you really want to think about the hybrid model from two vantage points, really. And this is what I have found works the best with most people. It's like the example that I just gave of my current client, who has the in-person business, and we're adding a retreat.

Alison 00:10:05 And so you might be sitting there thinking, well, that's too impersonal elements. Well, you're right, it is. But she's also building an online presence to go with it. That can still be considered a hybrid model. The other way to look at it would be if you primarily serve your clients online, whether that's a membership or an online program or a mastermind or whatever group coaching program. And then you insert some type of in-person retreat experience, whether it be a private retreat, a small group retreat, a boutique retreat, or even a small group summit, right then that is also can be considered a hybrid model that the advantage, the commonality with both of those is, is that you've taken your expertise and you're monetizing it in a number of different ways, and that is really what it's about for the future.

Shannon 00:10:51 Amen. Hallelujah. Oh my goodness. You're speaking my language. I'm hoping that there's people listening to this that either have been considering retreats or are in the retreat business because you're right either side and are thinking creatively how they can add that other aspect.

Shannon 00:11:05 So if you are hosting retreats, how can you add on that online aspect, which, by the way, continues to support the people that you are working with or who've showed up, right? And then if you're online, how can you incorporate in-person events? I mean, I know you and I are like, duh. This is a no brainer, but I'm hoping that there's like creative juices that are flowing for people on either side going, ooh, I could do X, and X doesn't have to look like what Allison does, and it doesn't have to look like what I do.

Alison 00:11:33 Like X could be a number of different ways.

Shannon 00:11:35 Yeah. And I love that you're like it could be a summit. It could be a mastermind. It could be a gathering. It could be a retreat. It could be look, it could be whatever. and same thing for the online portion of it. It could be coaching, it could be group coaching. It could be mastermind. It could be, Yeah.

Shannon 00:11:51 I mean, it literally could be all the same names that you use for the other side. It's just structured differently. in the content is provided, however, it is that you like to provide content, So.

Alison 00:12:00 Yeah. And you just. Well I think too. For people listening, I think what you want to always keep in mind is, is that the object if you're an entrepreneur now going into the future, the object is really about your personal brand. It's about what are you about? And what do you stand for? What, what are you for and what are you against? And it's like when you look at being able to offer a number of different ways that people can access you. So in a way that, I mean, people could come into you from your website, from a newsletter, from a challenge of some type, from an online program that you're offering. But don't discount those in-person opportunities, too, because there's a number of different ways that you can monetize all of what you do.

Alison 00:12:42 And then that sets you up not only financially better for the future, but it puts you in a position where you're always meeting people. And when you're a business owner, you can never know too many people.

Shannon 00:12:53 Okay, so I love that we are talking financials a little bit because as people who have listened to my podcast know, No, I'm in the retreat business, not the retreat hobby. And so Allison and I and our good friend Aaron now daily have conversations about this. And also hint, hint. This will be part of what we launch. And I think we're launching it in October. October. Yes. So stay tuned. But yeah, we're launching it in October. But it will be happening in 2026. Anyhow, we're all about how can we increase our business and our profit? Totally. and this again, is to me a no brainer if you're doing really well on the online space. Dude, add that that in-person space and it just contributes to your bottom line and vice versa.

Shannon 00:13:42 You're still serving the same people. It's still in your genre. It's all connected. It's just a different way of delivering the information and adding more profit to your bottom line.

Alison 00:13:53 Yeah. And also, I think to what I just want to say, again, for people listening is, is that it really? You know, I don't want to make it sound like we're just sitting here counting money and money bags. It's not about greed at all. You know, it's really about being able to serve at a much higher level. And when you're when you're able to offer somebody a transformative experience, like something in person, like a retreat or a group event or something, you're just adding massive value for them and you're adding massive value for yourself. And it's a win for everybody.

Shannon 00:14:24 Yes. See? Speaking the same language win win, win, win win for everybody. I just love that so much. The other thing that we kind of talked about real briefly is the business logistics side, right. So whatever your your LLC is or your company or your formation, you've started it off at X, it's, you know, online or it's retreats.

Shannon 00:14:45 There's no need at the beginning to, to do anything differently. Right. I mean, Alison, you were just talking about this. Tell us about your journey, about how that was and then now what you are thinking of doing in the future because of.

Alison 00:14:55 Yeah, when I, when I first started doing retreats, I got to be honest. I I'll tell you, because my background is in health and fitness. I thought it was going to be a fitness weekend. That was kind of my initial vision was to do these boot camps, these workout camps. And I'll tell you, and this is probably a really bad analogy, but I'm just going to say it my, my, my inspiration for doing it was watching programs like The Biggest Loser, where people would just go somewhere and they'd stay for a few days or. And in that case, it was a lot longer. And that's not really what I had in mind, but it was taking people out of town somewhere where we could really focus on themselves.

Alison 00:15:30 And since at the time I was 100% working in fitness, operating a very successful small studio with a small team, I thought, this is a no brainer. This is a great way to give people kind of a family type experience, you know? And so over the years, that vision kind of morphed into something a little more boutique like as I started getting more involved and interested in personal development and, you know, daily self-care strategies. I've always loved to travel. And so I sort of found a niche in providing what I like to call a futuristic, visionary experience. One of the things that I use in all of my retreat programs is the use of a compass. I talk all about the direction that you're moving, the direction of your future, being aligned with your future self, etc., etc. so that's a lot of what we do. But now, back then, all I was thinking about was offering. This would be a really fun experience to offer for my clients. I wasn't even thinking about starting another business.

Alison 00:16:25 You know, I was just thinking, ding ding ding! This is a way to help more people. This is a way to give them more. It's going to be fun for me. Let's just try it and see what happens. You know, and I started off as really small groups. And then they grew and they grew to like 6 to 8 people traditionally, which is usually about my sweet spot. And so now ten, 12 years later, at some point, what I'm looking at in the next year or two is branching off the retreat part of my business and starting a whole separate company, because I'm traveling more and more as as are you. And, you know, there's a lot more that's on the horizon. Ahead that's going to be tied into this direction for me. And so what I want people listening to understand is, look, dip your toe in it first and kind of play with it and make it work for you. And then if it makes sense down the road, then we can certainly talk about what that looks like as a business.

Shannon 00:17:18 Yeah, I, I totally agree. Yeah. I love this so much. So if you haven't gotten anything else from this podcast, expand your horizon and think creatively about how you could add either the online portion or the in-person portion to your current business model. Alison's contact information will be in the show notes. She is the master at helping you brainstorm this, build it, envision it, get it going. So please contact her. And she's got an incredible retreat coming up in Italy. Allison, about that retreat in October.

Alison 00:17:52 And at the time that we're recording this, it's we have four rooms open, and I'm partnering with a colleague of mine who lives over there, and she speaks the language and she's a phenomenal health coach. And we've got an amazing program where we've got introductions into private family vineyards and wineries and gardens and things that you're just not going to find. If you go on TripAdvisor or Google and look for the the cool thing to do on the Amalfi Coast, which is where we're going to be.

Alison 00:18:19 So if this kind of speaks to you, then I definitely would encourage you to reach out because I'm really expecting these rooms to fill up fairly soon.

Shannon 00:18:27 Love it. They absolutely will. So Alison, thank you so much for being on the show and I can't wait to release our big stuff coming in the future.

Alison 00:18:35 So we're going to have to, we're going to have to come back and do another episode about that.

Shannon 00:18:39 Oh, no. Absolutely, absolutely.

Alison 00:18:41 Yeah, 100%.

Shannon 00:18:44 Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at the Retreat. See you next time.

EP 237 True North Leadership: Building Profitable Men’s Retreats with Brent McCann

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Brent McCann, founder of the True North Retreat, to talk about the rising tide of men’s retreats—and what it takes to make them successful and sustainable. Brent shares how he transitioned from corporate HR into the retreat space, the lessons learned from his first Sedona retreat (including the power of trusting the process), and how he’s now crafting a profitable, aligned retreat business.

They dive into:

Why men book differently than women—and how to speak directly to them
Pricing strategies that work (and how Brent raised his profit margin from 1% to 30%)
How to design high-impact experiences that create transformation and build community
What it looks like to scale retreats with intention, alignment, and purpose

Brent's upcoming True North Men's Retreat in Austin (Oct 23–26) is designed for men at a crossroads—ready to step out of the noise, zip-line into clarity, and walk away reconnected to purpose.

Connect with Brent: https://truenorthretreat2025.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Brent 00:00:44 Thank you. Shannon, it's my pleasure to be here. I appreciate the time.

Shannon 00:00:48 Yes. So Brent is a retreat host. And what I meant by there's not enough of them, or at least I don't see enough of them. And so maybe it's just not on my radar as much as it should be, is that there's not enough men hosting men retreats, in my opinion, and Brent hosts men retreats that look absolutely fantastic.

Shannon 00:01:06 But I don't want to take away too much of your thunder, Brent. So why don't you just tell us all about who you are, what you do, and what brought you to where you are now?

Brent 00:01:13 Absolutely. Thank you. So, I'm a previous corporate, employee. I was a, you know, a mid senior level HR leader for about ten years working in corporate America. Before that, I was in the car wash industry working as an operations leader. So for for like 15, 20 years, I was working for the man. And I got to the point where, last year, well, about two years ago, I went to an event out in Austin and I was really moved by it. And in that moment, sitting with 100 people, I looked to my friend and I said to him, I said, listen, man, I'm going to do this someday. I want to do this kind of thing. And I didn't know how it was going to happen. I didn't know what to expect.

Brent 00:01:53 But, what ended up working out was that, you know, last year, you know, I made a pretty good deal on a real estate thing that I was doing on the side. And about Q3, Q4 of last year, I had this epiphany that like, if I wanted to, I could probably take a year, year and a half off and see if I could grow this, this retreat business into something.

Shannon 00:02:15 And yes.

Brent 00:02:16 Yeah. So it was really, it was exciting and nerve wracking at the same time. Right? You know, it's like, I have no idea what I don't know. yep. But I trust. Right? You know, I trusted and, I actually did a, I went to this breathwork, certification thing, and I came back from that in December of last year, and I was all of a sudden I was in a meditation after doing a breathwork. And it was like I felt like, you know, the universe just zapped into my head and was like, you should do a men's retreat.

Brent 00:02:47 And I'm like, okay.

Speaker 3 00:02:51 I didn't think about that. But, you know, I was like, all right. Like, let's, let's look at this.

Brent 00:02:55 And, and but I didn't know where, you know, like I had coordinated things in corporate HR. Before, you know, corporate retreat type things, but not in this space. And I felt this, this urge to go to Sedona. And I had never been to Sedona before. I knew nothing about it. Literally had no idea where it even was. But I was like, okay, that's cool. Like, let's go. and, you know, six months later, you know, I had my first retreat. So, you know, it's been a journey. You know, it's, it's a it's a gift. It's really what it comes down to. So, you know, I don't wanna get too long winded on it, but I.

Shannon 00:03:28 Know that this is great. Okay, so there's so many things that happened just in this first snippet.

Shannon 00:03:34 the first thing is, is, like, you definitely received your download because for you to have a download that says, go to Sedona and you've never even been there or didn't even know where it is. that's definitely a download. It's not usually what I would recommend unless it's a download. Right. Because, you know, we we typically want to host at least our first retreat. and I'm even a fan of saying all retreats in places we've been to at least one time. However, there are definitely situations like this where something is speaking to you and you've just got to follow it. And I love this so much. Let's talk about the fact. Steve, here's the thing, guys. What we're going to talk about today is Brent's recap of his first retreat, and then now how he's going to learn from that retreat and go forward. Because I think a lot of people, Brent, they think my first retreat, I'm going to make $1 million and it's going to be knocked out of the park.

Shannon 00:04:26 And I also think there are a lot of people out there making it sound like you can do that, like you can just all of a sudden be an instant success. But the truth is that there's no such thing in any industry. I don't care what it is. If corporate, small business, large business, it doesn't matter what it is. You're typically not an instant success unless you consider the learning, the success, which I do. Right? Because that's what those first few retreats are. At least the first 1 to 3 are learning experiences and their investments for future ones. So I would love, Brent, for you to tell us what happened on your first retreat and what was the biggest downloads and learnings you got from it?

Brent 00:05:04 Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the the goal here was just to break even. You know, I, I, you know, I remember listening to episodes that you had shared and even in your book where it says like don't go too far away.

Brent 00:05:16 And I'm like, oh my God. Like I live in Western New York. I'm going to this, this place I've never even been to. Right. So, you know, like, I booked a flight and I got out there two weeks later and I scoped it out, and and things just really aligned very well. but really, you know, what I learned from this was in the retreats, probably. And as with anything new, who you're coming up against is not the people that I was advertising to or, you know, my family. I was coming up against myself. You know.

Shannon 00:05:47 This? Yes.

Brent 00:05:49 Vulnerable space to be in, financially vulnerable, energetically vulnerable. And, you know, and to know that, like, not everybody catches the, you know, picks up what you're throwing down there. Right? Like, people are like, what the hell are you talking about? You're doing this, you know? So, yeah, I really I invested in a program. that was okay.

Brent 00:06:11 Like, I spent a lot of money on it, but it was. It had a pretty good return for me, at least, to get me familiar, because I didn't have, like, an Instagram following. I didn't have a LinkedIn following. I, I'm not on Facebook that often. So how do you do this? Right? and that was part of facing off with myself is like overcoming this limit, these limiting beliefs that I need those things in order for that to happen. And, I'll be honest with you, I was going to I was going to throw it out, like I that got to be I had one person sign up. It was the end of March. the, the, the agreements that I signed were coming into the point were like, okay, you're you're within 90 days, you're within 45 days. You need to, you know, make sure you get a deposit. You're on the hook for this. And, I just didn't see it happening and I just totally I gave up, and I was going to take the website down.

Brent 00:07:03 And I remember thinking, you know, I've got it. I'm going to take the website down, on like Thursday or no, it was like a week before. And then all a sudden I'm like, I'll just wait. I'll wait a little bit. I'm going to have this meeting with a friend and then we'll see what happens. Well, before this meeting with my friend, I'm making breakfast one morning and I get this text alert and I'm like, what the hell is this from? And I look, and somebody had actually registered for the event like a straight cold registration. And all of a sudden I had this moment and it's like, wait a minute, maybe that vision from a couple months ago is true. Maybe this like, maybe there is something out there that's matching what people need or what men need, and maybe I should try a different route. And so it brought up this sense of inspiration. and then I signed up, 4 or 5 other people within two weeks.

Shannon 00:07:49 Like it just.

Shannon 00:07:50 Wow.

Brent 00:07:51 Yeah. Yeah, it was really powerful. so, you know, from that lens, like, I learned, like, if I try to force it, it's going to be way more difficult than if I just, you know, take the right action and allow it to kind of manifest or create itself and create the outcomes. Yes. And then also, you know, even just from the the overall experience, like I had a whole budget thing written out, I, I'm a numbers guy. So I was looking at a lot of that, and, and trusting the process that, you know, like I, I knew my numbers well enough so I could speak to things confidently. I knew it was going to be within like $500 plus or minus, so I was okay with that. and then and then really the, the self-efficacy of realizing, right, like in the midst of the retreat, realizing I'm doing it like, wow, this is really happening, right? Seeing other people's lives start to change in a matter of four days.

Brent 00:08:44 And then afterwards, that feeling of, you know what? I can do this. And now after the response that I got from them, I'm like, I think I should do this more. And so that's what led me to to building into this second retreat now.

Shannon 00:08:58 Okay, Brent. First of all, congratulations. You've done your first retreat and in my opinion, it was a huge success. Also, I want to harp on a little bit or not harp on. That's not the right word, but I want to just celebrate. I guess, again, this mindset shift that you had, because that's really what sounds like happened when you got that second, that second booking. I'm a big fan, I tell. I like to tell people who are who are new in the business that if you got one booking and it's an aligned booking, right, it's you got one aligned booking, then there's others out there. You're just either not speaking the right language, taking the right action, etc. and so forth.

Shannon 00:09:37 I also like to say, now if you've got none, then we need to revisit what what your words are and who you're talking to and all the other stuff. But if you get one, at least aligned one. The other thing is you said something really powerful. My opinion is you can manifest and attract and allow all you want, but if it doesn't have action assigned with it, then it's just daydreaming to me. And daydreaming is fine, but it won't equate to what you just said happened in your mindset shift. So another congratulations, because that's really cool. So yay. First retreat. Nailed it. Nailed the mindset shift. Now coming out of that, and also, I am so glad that you got to see some of the transformation for other people through the space that you're holding, because that's what you're going to hold on to, Brent, as you continue to grow your business, because now you're going to based upon our conversation before we start recording, you're going to build this into a profitable machine.

Shannon 00:10:37 And in order to do that, you're going to run into more obstacles. The mindset is going to get a little Willy Wonka. And we'll talk about that and and your plans. But but you're just you will naturally. That's what happens when we are on the precipice of growing big. But you're going to hold on to that whole like, I saw what this does. I know the value of what this is like. I'm just I'm a big believer that we can have impact and income. They don't have to be exclusive. And so anyway, so share with me now like what are we doing to make sure that it's profitable. What are some changes or what are some things that you're doing.

Brent 00:11:15 100%. You know, like I there were things that we did in like Sedona, an inexpensive place to be. Like, I didn't know that. I know that now, you know, and there's there's times a year to be there and times of year that you don't want to be there. And, you know, so what I really took away from this, like I kind of did like what I call like an after action report.

Brent 00:11:33 Right. So when I was in the military, after every mission, you look back and you say, okay, what was it that we did? What did we do? Well, what could we do differently? Right. So after doing this, what I really looked at was like some things were they didn't really have the impact, you know, like. so for example like we went on like this Jeep tour, like it was nice, it was fun. But like the guys weren't raving about it, it was just more of like nice to have now the zipline tour. Everybody loved it. Even those that were afraid of it and overcame themselves there. They loved it. So, you know, when I look at that, you know, I think about like, okay, because part of my modus operandi is every day we're going to do something off site. So like we go to hotels, I like to stay in nicer places. so we're going to stay at, like, a nice hotel.

Brent 00:12:17 We're going to go out, we're going to do something off site. We're going to come back during the day. We're going to train, you know, have teachings, all that kind of thing. And then we're going to go out for nice dinners at the same time. And what I realized was like, as I, as I build into Austin, like, I don't need to, like we're going to do ziplines. Like for sure. Right. Like that's going to be awesome. But like I looked at like, oh, maybe we could do horseback riding and we could do this and we could do that. And I'm like, but does it need to happen? Right? So like when I look at it and I realize something's going to cost $2,000, but is it really going to align with what I'm teaching? Is it going to make an impact and help drive home what we're learning? Right? Or is it, you know, kind of like how, you know, you talk about like, yeah, people want to know like the activities, but they're looking for the feeling.

Brent 00:13:02 They're looking for the transformation more than anything else. Right? So now as I look at it, what I'm looking for now is, is what what what are the critical few that are going to really land, right. And you know, for me ziplines that that's something that lands because even if you love them, you're still going to get a rush of adrenaline. There's still going to be some type of emotional response in our body. and you know just I like to have something a little bit. That's, that's specific to the area too. Right. So like when we go out to dinner we're not going to like KFC. We're not going to McDonald's. We're going to go to nice places that are in the area. and, and you know, one I want I want the guys to feel good. Right. So yeah, as I look at that now and then I look at how I'm pricing it, like I knew I was underpriced. I didn't know how much until I was actually on the retreat.

Brent 00:13:52 And I remember, like, we rented like this big SUV and we're driving to this, I don't even know what we were doing, but I remember driving with all the guys in the truck, and and I'm like, this is like a $5,000 retreat. Like, they're like, I would pay. Not because I'm biased, but like, I would pay $5,000 for this. And I was charging, like 335. Yeah. So yeah, as I look at this now, now I've created, you know, the packages that range between 3500 to 5000. and then I'm adding the value. Right. Like, it's it's all dependent on what value you want out of it. And then also with what I've reduced from, from an expense standpoint. Now that margin went from really, like, maybe 1% to now I'm targeting more like 20 to 30% margin. And that.

Shannon 00:14:38 Gives me, yeah.

Brent 00:14:39 Bigger wiggle room and confidence to step into it because I know what it's worth.

Shannon 00:14:44 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss.

Shannon 00:14:49 I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yes, yes, I noticed this. So Brent and I were talking before we started recording about. it's just my philosophy. Not all hosts are like this, but I'm not a discount person. I'm just. I absolutely am anti discount. And I love though, Brent. How you. I mean, I really loved how you built the value into each offering. So it's kind of like okay here's your first soft touch point you which includes this. And it's you know, 3500 or whatever it was.

Shannon 00:15:54 This touch point includes these extra things, and it's 45, you know what I mean? Like, I just I absolutely love that I think that you are positioning yourself in such a way that it is going to be beautifully aligned for the guest to get what they want out of it, and then you to feel energetically aligned in a financial way for what you're offering. Right? Yeah, yes. Because the ones that are paying more, they're getting more from you. and so it's it's a really beautiful exchange. So it sounds like you're totally aligned. Tell me the difference about planning for Sedona, which, by the way, I'm really glad to hear that you at least went and visited the spot before you hosted there.

Brent 00:16:33 So yeah.

Shannon 00:16:33 Yeah, that really helps. And anybody who's listening, if you're planning a retreat and you've never been there, you've I'm telling you, you've got to make a site visit. It just makes all the difference in the world. and it just really does. But tell me the difference is in planning.

Shannon 00:16:47 Now, your second retreat with a different location. like, what are some things that have come up for you in this process?

Brent 00:16:54 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what's nice now is I kind of know the recipe, right? Like, I kept everything the same. Like I'm looking like on my monitor to my right. Has everything written out different? Tabs on the worksheet. I know exactly what I'm looking at. And I've built this. I mean, you don't get to where. Not that I was, like, super high up, but like, you don't achieve success in air in corporate unless you know how to be a business partner, which means working with operations leaders, figuring out how to, you know, make money with the people. You have those kind of things. So when I looked at this and I'm like, okay, well, then I know what I need. I mean, I've done this with entrepreneurs, I've done this with fortune 500 companies. I need to do this for myself and in some ways kind of put myself in check, too, like if I'm dreaming, like I had a conversation with someone and they're like, oh, we're going to do this, and then we're going to have affiliate marketing and this and that.

Brent 00:17:43 And I'm like, hang on a second. Like, let's get let's get up on our two feet first before we start thinking about this. You know, I love the energy, but let's just, you know, little reality check. so, you know, when I look at this now, I've got this the recipe. At the same time, I've been to Austin like 3 or 4 times in the last year, year and a half. So like, I'm familiar with where I want to go, I know that I don't want to take everybody out on sixth Street. If I want them to stay sober and have a really good, you know, experience besides having like a party until way late and feeling hungover. Right? So, yes, you know, so I know the spots where I want to go, you know, I know I knew the type of hotel we wanted to stay at. And so this time, it's a lot easier because I've been there, you know, and now and as I build into next year, I'm going to have several other retreats.

Brent 00:18:31 And in some of these areas I've not been. So I look at it as it's an investment now I need to get out there. I need to to move and shake. I need to talk to people. You know, I've got three trips this summer to go to different places because I so firmly believe that that there's an energetic calling for this type of work, that it's just a matter of like where and when and how. So that how has become a lot easier now that I've gone through the one.

Shannon 00:18:58 How, yes, yes to all of that. Well, We'll tell our listeners. Who is your ideal guest? And then tell us about your upcoming retreat.

Brent 00:19:06 Absolutely. Thank you. So the ideal guest is obviously a man. it could be anywhere. you know, typically what I've seen, you know, in this last retreat was anywhere from their, their early 40s to their mid 60s, you know. for me, it doesn't really matter if the the key of what I look for is, are you at a crossroads in your life? Do you know that you want something different? Do you know what that is? And maybe it's just that you're not sure of how to get there.

Brent 00:19:32 And if that's the case, then you're my ideal client. Because what I look at is, you know, I have a balance. I, I don't get super woo woo because especially as men, we don't typically want to get into that woo woo space. And you know, and I should also add that my ideal client is somebody who really hasn't been in this space before, that they haven't been to a retreat before. If they have been, maybe it's in a corporate background. So now what I'm doing is I'm giving them some of the neuroscience behind And change some of the things that have been found over the last ten, 15 years as it relates to meditation and breathwork, and then also tying that into a little bit of the woo woo just to get, you know, dab their dab their toes in it a little bit, but not shock the nervous system to.

Shannon 00:20:15 Love.

Brent 00:20:16 It. I don't want them walking out going like I'm never doing this again. You know I want.

Shannon 00:20:20 I love it.

Brent 00:20:21 You'll walk around, you know, walk out saying like, you know what? It was the the best balance of of opportunity. I learned some things. I tried some new things. And as a result, this is what's happened for me.

Shannon 00:20:31 I love it. Awesome. So when is your next retreat? We know it's in Austin. When is that happening?

Brent 00:20:37 Yeah, it's October 23rd through 26th of this year. and yeah, we're going to kick off. We're going to stay at this beautiful hotel just in the hill country, about 20 minutes south of Austin. and then we're going to kick off, like I said, ziplining all the fun stuff there. But more importantly than anything, we're going to have a strong sense of community. We're going to have anywhere from 8 to 12 guys that are going to get together, you know, from all over the country and they're here to. To better themselves. They're here to get through whatever's been blocking them. And that, to me is the most important part, is that transformation truly happens when you get people that are looking for it and are hungry enough to to sit at the table and see what happens.

Brent 00:21:18 So I'm very excited for it. I think it's going to be incredible.

Shannon 00:21:21 Well, hell yes Brent, all of that information will be linked in the show notes, so please check it out and share it with someone who you think might really benefit from this, because I can tell from the website, from your history, and from your energy that this is going to be an incredible retreat. So thank you so much, Brent, for sharing your history, your lessons, and your upcoming offerings. It is so appreciated.

Brent 00:21:43 Thank you Shan, I really appreciate the opportunity.

Shannon 00:21:45 Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at The Retreat. See you next time.

Why Most Retreat Leaders Fail to Sell Out — and How to Fix It with Erin Haag

Retreat not filling up? You’re not alone—and it’s probably not your price.

In this power-packed episode, Shannon Jamail is joined by pricing and profit strategist Erin Haag to break down the real reasons most retreats fail to sell out—and exactly how to fix it. From outdated marketing approaches to misaligned pricing strategies, they unpack the blind spots that hold retreat leaders back from profitability.

Erin shares her proven formula for pricing retreats using math over emotion—and the key profit margins every retreat business should aim for. Shannon and Erin also talk about why transformation sells more than price, the importance of daily sales activity, and why being in the right rooms with high-achieving peers can change everything.

PLUS: Erin shares a free resource for retreat leaders—her Top 5 Tips for Hosting Profitable Retreats.

Erins Top Five Tips: https://luxuryinbusinessretreats.mykajabi.com/top-5-tips-1

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Spotify

EP 236 From Sold-Out to Profitable: Mastering Retreat Marketing & Loyalty with Leni Cavazos

Most retreat leaders aren’t just undercharging… they’re under-profiting. In this powerhouse episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by Leni Cavazos—event strategist, loyalty marketing expert, and former Ritz-Carlton powerhouse turned retreat business mentor.

Together, they unpack why up to 90% of retreats aren’t actually profitable—and how to shift that.

You’ll learn:

Why retreat leaders must treat their business like a business (not a hobby)
What loyalty marketing actually is (and how to start it from day one)
The biggest pricing mistake even experienced leaders make
Why your transformation container is worth way more than a fancy vacation
How alumni can become your secret sales team

This episode is a must-listen for retreat leaders ready to stop surviving and start scaling.

🎁 Bonus: Leni shares how to get her free eBook on selling retreats to past clients.

About Leni:

Leni Cavazos is the leading authority on building 6-figure retreat businesses. With over 18 years in global marketing, brand strategy, and high-level event production, she’s behind the success of over 100 retreats worldwide. Leni teaches coaches and entrepreneurs how to scale with strategy, precision, and purpose—no guesswork, no fluff.

Free Offer: https://theretreatplanner.com/loyaltyebook

Loyalty on Repeat How to Sell Your Retreats With Past Clients Ebook

Connect with Leni: https://theretreatplanner.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. This is Shannon, and today I'm so excited to have a fellow retreat professional on the podcast today. Our paths have definitely crossed in different ways, and now we get to connect in person, sort of. We'll say sort of because we are recording on zoom. But welcome, Lenny to the show.

Leni 00:00:45 Thank you so much for having me. Shannon, I'm so excited to be able to talk more about retreats.

Shannon 00:00:50 Me too. I mean, anytime I get to get with another professional and talk business, it's like, I don't know, Christmas. It's just so, so fun.

Shannon 00:00:58 So, This is Lenny Cavazos, and I want you to first just start off by telling us about yourself. What brought you to this space? I don't know, just a little bit about who you are.

Leni 00:01:08 Oh, yes. Of course. So I started actually in the space of events many, many, many years ago. I started when I was 16 years old working at events, and it was absolutely amazing. I love being in person with people because of the connection that you can create. And that led me actually to move to the Middle East. I was living in Dubai for six years, and I was working at the Ritz-Carlton, where I rebranded nine restaurants and the spa, and I made it snow in the desert. And it was absolutely wonderful. And one of the pieces that actually is going to be very big in our conversation today is loyalty marketing. So after I was at the Ritz-Carlton, I actually moved to Marriott's corporate office for Middle Eastern Africa, and I was working in a team that launched Marriott Bonvoy.

Leni 00:01:54 So for those who do not know what Marriott Bonvoy is, it's a loyalty program for people to who stay at Marriott hotels. Basically, the more you stay at their hotels, the more the rewards you get. From free breakfast to room upgrades to invitations to crazy, crazy events. And I was in charge of running some of those crazy, crazy events for loyal customers. So I hosted a dinner in front of the Giza pyramids, at dinner in the Summer Palace of the King of Saudi Arabia, and it was a private concert for Craig, David, you name it. But the main focus of this was really to create connection with our customers, because loyal customers spend 67% more than non loyal customers. Now, when the pandemic hit and everything changed, I was trapped in my apartment on the 52nd floor with a beautiful view, but I could not leave unless I had a permission slip from the police. And that was the moment where I decided I wanted to do something different. I was like, I do not want people making decisions for myself.

Leni 00:02:58 So I move myself back to Mexico, my hometown, and I actually started attending retreats. Right. So something that brings me, I guess, a little bit out of a lot of other retreat coaches into this space is that a lot of coaches started because they were hosting retreats, and then they start teaching how to host your own treats. My story was not like that. I started attending retreats that changed my life, and then I started creating connections with those retreat leaders. And there was this very specific retreat for women that I attended that literally changed who I was, my life. It got me to reconnect with my femininity. It was just beautiful. So at the end of the retreat, I asked them, so when is the next one I want to bring my mom, my friends. And they were like, no, we're not having a next one because we didn't even break even. How is this possible? You had 13 women at your retreat. And then I realized there was a big problem in the transformational world.

Leni 00:03:59 And because I. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, right?

Shannon 00:04:04 Yes.

Leni 00:04:06 And then, because I am very curious, I couldn't help myself. And I started interviewing retreat leaders to figure out what was going on out there, to figure out what was the missing link from creating transformation, serving people, to actually running your retreats like a business?

Shannon 00:04:23 Yes.

Leni 00:04:25 Big, big difference. So after interviewing over 100 retreat leaders and I keep doing a lot of market research as I go, I've started this over five years ago. I can tell you that over 70% of retreat leaders do not profit from their retreats. And that's just so sad.

Shannon 00:04:41 I would guess, to be quite honest with you, that it's even higher than that. I really would, I would, I would guess it's closer to 80 or 90% based on the people that I talked to as well. So and it is it's absolutely to me it's devastating, but it's also such a disservice.

Leni 00:04:57 Yes, I always tell them, like, do you want to go back to your 9 to 5 job instead of actually doing what you're meant to be doing in the world, because you don't treat your business like a business and you treat it like a hobby, you know, I'm here to serve, and it doesn't matter if I don't make any money.

Leni 00:05:13 And the reality is that retreats takes so much time and effort and energy, and there's so transformational. Like people change their lives when they go to retreats. Why wouldn't you also profit from it?

Shannon 00:05:24 I totally, totally agree with you. this is you're speaking my language on so many levels. I struggle greatly with anybody who's in this industry and and saying, you know, that they're either a not making a profit, that they don't want to make a profit. That's somebody who just is like, okay, we're not even in the same we're not even in the same city, let alone, you know. Yeah, yeah. That's just not even whatever. because you do you get a lot of that language in this, in this business, in this industry of like profits are evil or money is evil or any kind of bullshit like that. I just don't play that game. but then the flip side of that part is they just don't know how to run a business, right? So there's the attitude and you can't fix attitude.

Shannon 00:06:07 They've got to figure that part out. They've got to do them inner work. They've got to figure out what their money obstacles are, whatever that is. The other part of it is they just don't know how to make a profit. And that can be fixed, right? That can be learned. That can be taught. and it sounds like that's something that you help people do.

Leni 00:06:25 Yeah. So for me, it's all about like like my core messaging is like sold out and profitable. And the reason it's like, and I don't even really, really like I'm not like your retreat does not need to be sold out to be profitable, but you do want to be able to sell. And a lot of people lack sales skills. And it doesn't mean that you need to have these more like phone marketing person getting angry at you because you don't buy from them, right? And we have a misconception that selling is an act of service and that you're taking away from people if you do not offer your services.

Shannon 00:07:03 Yeah, there's a lot of misconceptions about selling. and it's it's it's unfortunate, but it's fixable. as long as somebody is willing to open up their mindset, one of the things that you mentioned right at the beginning, and I know it's the topic that we really want to focus on today, because I think you and I could talk about things for hours and hours. but one of the main things that I'm really excited to chat about is loyalty marketing. And I know that you have a lot of experience in loyalty marketing. and I'm really passionate about it, so I'm super excited to delve into that part, which also aligns with sales, because there's absolutely a sales process in there. But let's talk about that. Talk to me about the importance of loyalty marketing and how it can really help you grow your business.

Leni 00:07:46 Well, first I would like to start by saying what loyalty marketing means for those who might not be aware of the concept because it's a very, very simple concept. Loyalty marketing is customer relationship management.

Leni 00:08:00 That's what it means. It's how you manage the relationships with your customers. So they want to come back. They want to buy from you again. At the end of the day, it's all about creating connections. It's about creating this rapport, building like know and trust. So they're like, if they have to decide, am I going to this retreat or this other retreat? It's a no brainer. So loyalty marketing is very, very powerful. And for me, it's my favorite type of marketing because it's all about building relationships. It's about nurturing those relationships that exist and not nurturing the future ones. Now, a lot of people might consider that loyalty marketing starts the moment they purchase something from you, and then you resell them. But for me, loyalty marketing starts from the moment someone becomes aware that you exist.

Shannon 00:08:54 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable.

Shannon 00:09:09 Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. That's interesting. I'm glad that we're bringing it up that way, because in my brain, loyalty marketing is nurturing the relationships I already have. So, for instance, I have what I call an alumni group. These are people who've all attended one of my retreats over the last 15 years. And so my alumni is like who I consider loyalty marketing. They've. But by the way, loyalty marketing can be whatever we decide it's going to be. But that's like for me, it's like my alumni, they get a special code, they get special extras, they get a special gift bag when they come. It's kind of like if you've ever been on a Disney cruise, you're your second cruise.

Shannon 00:10:12 You get like special things left on your bed, your third cruise you get it gets elevated each time you attend a cruise, like your goodies get elevated, your access gets elevated, everything gets elevated. And that's the kind of the same thing that we do for our alumni group is that it gets elevated. And then every other year we have an alumni only retreat like no one else can come unless you've been an alumni. And that is a pure party recognition. Surprises, like, it's just an absolute blast. and so that's where my brain went with loyalty marketing. So I'm really excited because I do understand, though, this concept of as soon as there's a connection point of any way. That also could be loyalty marketing.

Leni 00:10:51 Yes. So your regular way to see loyalty marketing would be they purchased, then they repurchased and they repurchased. And the more they purchased, the higher the benefits they get. And this is like the core concept in a way. And that's why there is a lot of memberships.

Leni 00:11:08 And then you get points, right. A loyalty marketing program that anyone can relate with is Starbucks, right? The more coffees you get, the more rewards you get. Right. You get free coffee and then more and more and more and more and more. So that is the way. But and that's the when the moment when you get I would say when someone repurchases from you like and we call it retention. Right. So when someone stays with you, that's for the moment where you see the benefits and reap the benefits of all your loyalty marketing efforts, but that does not mean that you do not begin the relationship and nurturing them to become loyal customers before that. The way. I don't know if you want to share something.

Shannon 00:11:49 No, no, I was just going to say I love that idea in that concept. Because as soon as they've had any kind of touchpoint, it is time to nurture that relationship.

Leni 00:11:57 Exactly. So I like to see it in a very simple way. So when someone becomes aware of us on a social media post, on an ad, on a podcast episode, we are creating a one sided relationship.

Leni 00:12:11 We're putting out content and that other person is consuming it. And then from that moment, they will decide if they like you or they don't. As simple as that. They're like, oh, I want to see more of this person or I'm not really that interested. So if you lose them from the beginning, then they're not your potential clients anymore. They left the pool, right? They left your funnel everything out. It's out of there, right? They're not in your space anymore. So nurturing loyalty, marketing from the beginning, even for people who do mini purchases, right? Like, I send sometimes private messages to people who buy like a product is $17. And I send messages to check. Hey, did you receive my my loyalty book? How was it? What was the biggest learning that you received? Sometimes people will answer, sometimes people won't. And it's okay. I don't do it because I'm expecting an answer. I am doing it because I'm building relationships from an e-book that is free, because I care about these people who want to host retreats, who want people to come back to the retreats, who want to have profitable retreats.

Leni 00:13:24 And because I care, I show up and I show up in different levels of proximity. Right? And this is and I know maybe I'm talking a little bit in the technical space sometimes. So for those who are you listening, I hope it's clear enough. But different layers of proximity, right? So when someone comes, let's say to your book they might get an email from you or your assistant. And that's kind of it. It stays in that's in that realm, right? That's the amount of proximity that you're getting with them. Then later on, if they buy one of your courses, right, one of your programs, then maybe they're in live zoom sessions with you. So they get at a different level of proximity. The relationship that you're building has more touchpoints. And then let's say someone then comes to your retreat. But because they were on your group program, then they get a one on one session with you. Shannon.

Shannon 00:14:22 Right.

Leni 00:14:22 And higher level of proximity and then on and on and on.

Leni 00:14:29 But we can begin our journey to create loyal customers from the beginning. For example, my podcast, How to Run Profitable Retreats. I have a lot of loyal customers that if I don't post an episode on the week, they will send me an email and be like, Laney, did something happen?

Shannon 00:14:48 I love that.

Leni 00:14:50 And it's because it's a one sided conversation that then becomes there is a place where they respond, but we do not want to start just nurturing relationships. Once they bought we want. Yeah, from the beginning.

Shannon 00:15:07 I totally, totally, totally love this. one of the things I've talked about on one of my previous shows was we spend a lot of time in this industry, marketing, marketing, being throwing a lot of content out. Well, hopefully you are. Hopefully you're throwing content out, and it's good content, and it's valuable content and it is speaking the language to the proper audience. So hopefully you're doing that. And then the retreat leader is thinking, well, that's selling.

Shannon 00:15:33 I just threw a bunch of information out. But it's not. That's marketing. Selling is anybody who's interacted with that information. You then follow up with them and you start what you're talking about, which is the the nurturing a relationship. It's this or as you will, loyalty marketing even. But it's really nurturing a relationship and it starts the minute there is a connection, a true connection. I also love that you said if they drop out, they're not your people. That's so important to me, Lenny, because I'm all about attracting the audience that you align with. And that's not everybody. Like, not everybody is going to listen to my podcast and be like, oh, that's the person I want to, you know, hear or be in the room with or whatever. Like, they're not they're not going to like how I talk or how I believe or, or how I run my business. That's okay. I want to attract the people who align with me. Maybe I challenge them. Challenging is fine, but alignment with that as well.

Shannon 00:16:30 And so I love that you're like some people will just drop off. We're not chasing the ones that are dropping off. I'm not a big believer of that. We don't go chasing people who are dropping off. That means it's not a fit. No problem. I wish them well on the next journey that they find the right fit with. but yeah, I love this whole concept of, you know, really making sure that we nurture that relationship at that first touch point. And I know for a fact and I know you know this too. It's not happening in our industry. We're just putting information out there and then doing nothing else with it, and then sitting back and going, well, my retreats not feeling.

Leni 00:17:07 Yes, like. But I posted on Facebook groups and no one replied to me.

Shannon 00:17:12 Yes, that.

Leni 00:17:15 Right. Yeah. Everyone talks about the, you know, the the post, the post and pray kind of thing. Right? And it is so important in these, in this industry to understand that we need to run our business like a business, like when I was going through a lot of these interviews, a lot of people were like, well, as long as it pays for my trip.

Shannon 00:17:35 Oh God, please don't say that.

Leni 00:17:38 I was like, what?

Shannon 00:17:40 No, I.

Leni 00:17:41 Just might as well just go on your trip on your own. Find the money somewhere else.

Shannon 00:17:45 Oh, my gosh, that's way less of a headache. That's way less work. And oh my gosh. Yeah. So this I get super, super worked up about because it does a disservice to everybody else in the industry who is wanting to make an impact and an income. And they can be done at the same time. They're not exclusive an impact and an income. And the transformation that you talked about that's happening on retreats. I'm not talking about a weekend vacation, which that's fine. Those are fun. I'm talking about a retreat where there is a promise. There's a promise that's going to be answered at the end of that retreat. A problem solved, a transformation is going to happen. Those are priceless. And they're worth a lot. They're worth your energy. They're worth your time. They're worth your experience.

Shannon 00:18:28 They're worth so many things. And people get it so confused and they think, well, it's just, you know, I only, you know, I'm at the retreat from these days to these days. And I get to travel. No no no no. It's so much more than even the time on the retreat. It's everything you've experienced in your life. All the education, all the experience that brought you to this point to host the retreat that also has value. And so, yeah, I get really worked up when people are like, well, I just hope it pays for my vacation or my trip. And I'm like, what the. We are not on the same page.

Leni 00:18:58 We're not. But like, there's a couple of things that I want to bring here into the conversation that you mentioned. First of all, I truly believe that you're not meant to be a cup of tea. You're meant to be a glass of champagne.

Shannon 00:19:10 That means you're not on.

Shannon 00:19:12 Hold on. You're speaking my language.

Shannon 00:19:14 I don't know if it'll show up because I have it all blocked out.

Shannon 00:19:17 But anyway, it's a it's a Veuve Clicquot.

Shannon 00:19:21 Bottle that's been custom painted for me that sits on my desk because that's been my favorite champagne for over ten years. And I might have butchered the name a little bit just now, but, that is like. I am a fine glass of champagne. So yes. Please continue.

Leni 00:19:37 I also have a big like, you know, the big, big bottles of champagne in my drawer. And it has a glass cover because it's it's specifically for once I reach a specific goal. So it's there.

Shannon 00:19:50 Waiting. Get it girl.

Leni 00:19:52 Yeah. So when we're not, when we're not trying to be liked by everyone because honestly, it's impossible. It's easier for us to understand. Where do we come from? Who do we serve? And this leads me to the space of, like, once where, like, there's a lot of, like, retreats that are a little bit on the generic side, let's call it like that.

Leni 00:20:13 And you're, I call it like swimming with sardines. You're a sardine and you're with a bunch of other sardines. So there's nothing that makes you stand out and make you different. And people want things that are different in their lives. And then because of that you can have retreats are very very specialized. So an example that is also very connected to what you mentioned about the value of attending a retreat. Right. Because the value and for me retreats are priceless. Because in one moment your life can change.

Shannon 00:20:46 Yeah.

Leni 00:20:47 It's really containers for deep, fast transformation.

Shannon 00:20:50 Yeah.

Leni 00:20:51 To use this example that I love using is if someone needs to get divorced in California, in average, you will spend $250,000 plus all the energy, the relationship, maybe the therapists. If you have kids, you know all this pieces. But if you actually went to a retreat that could save your marriage or make you have an amicable divorce so you don't spend $250,000, what is it worth to you? The the mindset of your kids, the having to go back out on dating, having to date again.

Leni 00:21:31 Right. What is it worth it. And I attended a couples retreat by myself. One was funny, and the reality is that it was a therapist, and it was all about relationships and couples. And they asked one of the attendees, right. The guy, why are you here? And he said, because this is cheaper than divorce. That's literally what he said. Guess what? They're still married. They had another kid and now they have, like, four kids. They're still married. This one retreat was worth saving and marriage. And we undervalue ourselves because we think that if we price ourselves slow, then people, more people will say yes. And the reality is that it costs you the same amount of money, effort and time to get one person to pay you $1,000, then $10,000. Now, I'm not saying just go and raise up your prices without any foundations, but really look inwards And it's not about your self-worth because your self-worth changes every day. One day I wake up and I feel amazing and I'm worth $3 million, and the next day I might not be in the same space.

Leni 00:22:39 So it's not about self-worth. It's about the worth of the work that you do. What are you an expert on? What can you do to help other people change their lives? Right. One big problem. One big solution. That's it. And then really running your business like a business and then maintaining and nurturing those relationships. And this brings us back to loyalty marketing. Because if someone comes to your retreat and then they don't get divorced, but then there is no connection, there is no follow up, there is no integration afterwards. Then all the effort, all the money that was paid for that retreat might be lost. So creating these spaces for connection. Like I can tell you, because I nurture my relationships with my clients. We know in the retreat space, not everyone is ready to host retreats at that moment in their journey. They might need certain things, you know, certain boxes to tick. They might need more confidence. They might need more expertise. But there is this dream, right? The dream of hosting a retreat.

Leni 00:23:48 But because I nurture my relationships and I bring loyalty marketing into every single thing that I do. Because for me, it's part of who I am. It's not. It's not even a separate concept. It's me. Right? I bring that into everything that I do. I get people who show up back in my space three years later and they're like, Now I'm ready to hire you. Now I'm ready to come to your retreat. Those clients would have been lost if I was just like, well, they don't want to buy.

Shannon 00:24:18 Yeah.

Shannon 00:24:20 Yeah. No, this is so good. This is really hitting on a lot of different things, but especially this loyalty piece of of really continuing that nurturing relationships. Listen, retreat leaders really nurturing that relationship that somebody has already attended one of your retreats especially. But like Lenny said, at any touch point, but these ones that have already attended your retreat, there's a thing called cost of acquisition. The cost of acquisition for this person now to attend with you or to rebook with you, is so low compared to getting someone to come on a retreat that hasn't been on a retreat.

Shannon 00:24:57 Not only that, but that person who's attended your retreat now is a form of marketing for your retreats, right? They're the ones that's going to share your retreats. They can, do a testimonial video. There's like, so many different ways they can leave a Google review or a Yelp review or Facebook review or whatever it is that you use, or all of them. but they are another tool in your marketing for you that you don't even have to pay for. It was already paid, right? It's already paid for. But the cost of acquisition for working with someone you've already worked with is minimal compared to attracting new business to come in, so it's kind of twofold. Lenny, what we're talking about here is, is nurturing that relationship. As soon as they start with you, whatever it is, it's a like it's a comment. It's a response, it's a DM. It's, you know, whatever a phone call, an email, whatever that is nurturing from that point on, unless they drop off, which is totally fine.

Shannon 00:25:53 And then also continuing that relationship, even after you've done business with with them in a very special and intentional way with those that have already done business with you. So I'm loving this so much and you can get so creative in so many ways.

Leni 00:26:09 Yes, like once we wrote 200 personalized cards for people who show up for our events. Guess what? I got emails saying thank you so much for this experience. Can I come next year?

Shannon 00:26:20 Okay, I have to tell a story. This is so funny. so my team and I, spent several weeks mailing out a tiny, tiny little cute card that inside the card had a, an intentional card with it and a little note. And I mailed it out to every one of my alumni. Okay. For the past 15 years, it took us weeks. I highly suggest before you do some shit like that, that you know what the dimensions are of your country, of what you're sending. Because I've lived in the US my whole life, and I didn't know that.

Shannon 00:26:56 It has to be a certain size. It cannot be too small like it has to be a certain size. And so I got hundreds of them returned. And I just laugh about it now because it was like Shannon and I did this whole video that I shared with my alumni. Like, if you didn't get this little card, it probably was returned to me. And it will be in your mailbox soon. But it was just so funny because it was like, I loved it. And the people that received it loved it. And yet, you know, I had to laugh at the fact that I didn't research it well enough. But the point being is you've got to nurture your people, like especially the ones that have shown up. You know, you really you really do. I have special events for mine. They get a special discount code. I don't do discounts. I'm not a discount person at all. But I do allow my alumni to have a special code just for them. For any of my future retreats.

Shannon 00:27:45 I do just I give them special gifts. It's just. It's just a thing. I kind of love how you talked about like the Starbucks thing, although we are all so much better than Starbucks. But, you know, it's that whole it's like a reward system, you know, you trust me with your time, which to me is even more valuable than money. But you trust me with your time. And each time you do that with me, I want to really help you, really help you see and feel how much that means to me and to reward you for that. And so I just love this whole concept of loyalty marketing, and I hope to hear from the audience on some ideas of what they do for loyalty marketing, whether it's for someone they haven't worked with or someone they have worked with because they're kind of two different tracks, but on similar, train tracks. and so I would love to hear about that. So, Lenny, I love this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing.

Leni 00:28:38 Oh, no, it's my pleasure. I really, truly believe that once we really create connections with people, nothing can stop us. And I love your story about, you know, sometimes like the little details. But imagine, like the people I receive, like Christmas cards from friends in the US every year. And then when I get them, I can't wait to see them. They have a little bit of like a letter that says what's been going on in the year for them. And every single year I'm just waiting for that card to show up in my mail because it creates this connection. It's about it's about caring for people. Yeah. And there's so many different ways and how what you how you can do it. And the last thing I would like to add here is like, I love that you brought cost of acquisition into the conversation because majority of the people in the coaching transformational space do not know their cost of acquiring a client. They think that having ads and what they cost to get their person to sign up from ads is the cost of acquisition.

Leni 00:29:40 And there's so many different layers, and we're going to like, keep that maybe for a different, separate conversation. But it's very important for people to understand that retention rates when it comes to retreats inside of the retreat, and that does not mean you tell them about your next retreat or your offer one minute before the retreat is over, you need to plan for it, right? There is a marketing and the psychology on the sales process while you do it, but the retention rate of people attending a retreat is between 50 to 70%. That is massive. They're already there. They're your captive audience. They just changed their lives. And you help them?

Shannon 00:30:22 Yep. Oh my gosh, I love this. I love it so much. Well, Lenny also has a free gift for you. She's got an e-book that is called Loyalty on Repeat How to Sell Your Retreats with Past Clients. So that link will be in the show notes. Please grab that e-book and also jump on her podcast, which will also be linked in the show notes.

Shannon 00:30:40 So. Lenny, thank you so much. We will definitely have to do a part two and dive more into business analytics. Some people might like their eyes might cross and they might break out in a sweat. But the truth is, is part of owning a business and running it as a business. And we are not here to play small. We are here to play big. So thanks again, Lenny. I so appreciate you.

Leni 00:31:00 Thank you for having me.

Shannon 00:31:03 Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at the Retreat. Com. See you next time.

EP 235 Who Do You Need to Become? When Your Retreat Planning Isn’t Working

Hey retreat boss—it’s time for a heart-to-heart.
In this solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about a truth that most retreat leaders avoid:

👉 If your retreat planning isn’t working, it’s not just your strategy—it’s your identity.

Whether you’re dreaming of your first retreat or you’ve been in the game for years, this episode is your wake-up call to stop hustling like someone who hopes to succeed—and start embodying the retreat leader who already is.

✨ Shannon breaks down how to align your actions, energy, and environment with the version of you who fills retreats with ease, earns consistently, and leads with confidence.

You’ll walk away with questions to ask yourself, identity upgrades to make today, and a clear reminder:
💥 You don’t get what you want—you get who you are.

🎧 Tune in now for the kick-in-the-leggings clarity every retreat leader needs.

Link to full blog here: https://theretreatleadersplaybook.com/be-her-now-the-mindset-shift-that-builds-profitable-retreats/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon. Today I want to talk about something that has been coming up in a lot of conversations lately. And it's all about who do you need to become when your retreat planning isn't working? Because here's the thing you all have the vision. You have the passion. Maybe you've hosted a retreat or two, or you're dreaming of it. You're following strategies. Maybe you've even bought some programs and posted pretty graphics and the results are meh, right? You're not filling spots like you thought. You're not hitting those income goals. You do have income goals, right? Don't make me come after you.

Shannon 00:01:04 You better have income goals. But you're burning time and energy and maybe money, and you're just not seeing the return. And here's the truth. I want to share with you with lots of love and zero bullshit. If what you're doing right now isn't working, it's not about doing more. It's about becoming more. Your retreat planning isn't what's broken, but your identity might be, I know. Oh, that sounds a little bit harsh, but stick with me here, because this isn't about blame. It's about radical responsibility. Let's say your goal is to earn $250,000 a year hosting retreats. Amazing. Totally doable. I'm actually going to pause there right now, because if I said that number and you were like, oh no, that's not that's not even possible, then honest to goodness, you're listening to the wrong podcast or you're just not ready. You're thinking way too small. And this isn't this isn't the space for you. Not yet. When you realize that 250,000 is totally doable and so is 500,000.

Shannon 00:02:07 So is $1 million when you realize that you're in the right space. But whatever that number is, whatever that number is. I want you to get honest. When you think of the number, whatever your number is. I want you to get honest. I want you to ask yourself, are you making decisions like someone earning that amount a year? The big amount. The goal amount. Not that small shit. The big number. Are you making decisions like someone earning that number? Are you showing up with the confidence, the clarity and the consistency of someone who believes in that number? Are your daily habits, your energy, your schedule? Your identity aligned with that version of yourself? Who gets that number? Because here's the thing you don't get what you want. You get who you are. I want to say that again. You don't get what you want. You get who you are, who you're matched for. You get what you're matched for. That's why we've ever thought about things. And you're like, why didn't I get this then? But then you realized you went through all this other stuff, and you got that thing later and you were ready for it then.

Shannon 00:03:21 You were you were equipped for it. Then you were thinking in that mindset. You were acting in that like you were ready for it then. We need to be ready for it now. We need to step into the version of ourselves who does hit that goal, that big goal. And let's break this down. So we'll break it down a little bit. If you're stuck in hustle mode, maybe even frozen mode, but let's say you're stuck in hustle mode and you're spinning your wheels trying to plan the perfect retreat to post the perfect reel, or even copying someone else's strategy. Maybe you're missing the point. You're missing the point if you're doing all these things because it's not just about retreat planning and marketing strategies. Although yes, you do need those, but it is about aligning your identity with the results that you say you want. So let's go through this. Let's ask yourself some questions. I really want you to to pause. Maybe after I ask the question, you pause this podcast and answer it.

Shannon 00:04:21 Here's the first question. What does the retreat leader who earns 250,000 a year, $500,000 a year, whatever that number is? What does that retreat leader who earns that money do every day? Answer that question. Maybe she blocks her calendar with non-negotiable CEO time. She prioritizes revenue generating activities like outreach and strategic partnerships over tweaking Canva graphics for hours. Maybe she's very organized. She knows her numbers every day. She knows her numbers. I have a good friend, Erin Haig, who calls it coffee and QuickBooks. Shout out Aaron! I just love that she was doing that while we were in France. Every day it's coffee and QuickBooks. But a retreat leader who earns big money every day. She knows her numbers. Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat.

Shannon 00:05:37 It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Here's another question what kind of mindset work does she do? What kind of mindset work does she do? Answer that question every day. Maybe she journals. She visualizes. Maybe she reminds herself every day that her work changes lives. She charges what she's worth and doesn't apologize for it. What kind of mindset work does she do? Another question who does she surround herself with? Who do you surround yourself with? Maybe she's in rooms in person and virtual with others who are playing big, y'all. This is important. This is why I joined the Genius Network. This is why I choose to surround myself with other people who think and play big. Maybe she learns from mentors who's who have actually walked the walk, not just talked the talk.

Shannon 00:06:48 And I've got a little something to say about that here, because in this retreat industry now, we are seeing a lot of mentors and leaders popping up. And for only $7, you can learn how to make $1 million a year or $7,000. It really doesn't even matter. At the bottom, at the end of the day. What really matters is have they walked the walk? Have they walked the walk? That's who you want to listen to. That's who you want to surround yourself with. That's the room that you want to be in. She's also listening to books, podcasts and shows that speak growth, not scarcity. In this section of who she wants to surround herself with this question, I really want you to think hard of who you spend time with. Are they cheering you on and catapulting you to these big dreams? Or are they like, oh really? Are they holding you back? Or are they talking shit about the economy and the who? Whatever. Like, are they bringing you down? And you know how I feel about the economy and the world and how that affects us.

Shannon 00:07:49 It doesn't. Listen to my other podcast on that. But who she surrounds herself with matters. Another question. How does she present herself? How does she present herself? This is kind of twofold to me. One is not in a fake way, right? She shows up on zoom events, even social media. Confident, grounded and magnetic. Right? But also, how do you put yourself together? Does that matter to you? Like, for me, I feel my most abundant, my most passionate, my most. Like I'm getting it when I have put a little something in to the effort of how I feel and look. By my presentation. Exterior presentation just as much as my interior. It does matter to me. It doesn't to everybody, but it matters to me. How you show up energetically and physically determines how you're going to feel. So how does she present herself? She drag in herself in her pajamas and come on over and and going, let me journal this bullshit. That's that's up on both both energetics and physically.

Shannon 00:08:56 Right. How does she present herself? This kind of goes into the very last question I want you to ask yourself, which is how does she take care of her body and her energy. How do you take care of your body and your energy? Nourishing yourself. Moving your body. Getting support when you need it. She doesn't burn herself out trying to prove her worth. Because here's the thing. There is a difference between wishing and becoming. You can wish for success, or you can become the person who creates it. And becoming doesn't mean pretending. It doesn't mean pretending. There's a difference between pretending and acting as if you have something right. But it does mean choosing every single day to act. Think, plan, and move from the version of you who already has the thing you want. So you may think that's pretending, but that's not. And this, this doesn't work the other way around. You don't get the thing and then act as if you are that person. You act as if you are that person.

Shannon 00:09:56 You move. You think, you become that person, and you'll get the thing you want your retreat, planning to actually work? Then work like the leader who already fills her retreats. What does that look like? Sell like the woman who knows her offer. Changes lives. Lead like the business owner who isn't afraid to go all in. And this isn't about meditating more. Although, look, I'm all for journaling, manifesting, meditating, vision, boarding, all those good things. I even have a course on it outlining exactly what I do. And I do think that it makes a powerful difference. But don't get it twisted. Energetics without action is daydreaming. Energetics without action is daydreaming. What bridges the gap between your current reality and your dream retreat? Business is becoming the kind of person who is willing to do the uncomfortable, aligned, focused work to bring it to life. Because here's what I want you to know. To sum this all up, I want you to know this. You don't need to find her.

Shannon 00:10:58 You don't need to earn her. The version of you who fills retreats with ease, earns consistently, and leads with impact. She's already in you. I'm telling you, she is already in you. You just need to start acting like her today. Today? You can do that today. What's. What's one thing you could change today to start acting like that? To start acting like the person who earns that big goal. And if you don't know where to start, y'all know that I have my retreat leader membership. You can join where we talk strategy and mindset, marketing and identity support, stretch goals, all of those things. Or find a mentor or a course or a program or a room that plays big because you were never meant to do this alone, and you're definitely not meant to keep playing small. Let's build your retreat business and the identity to match. I look forward to hearing about it. Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at the Retreat Ranch. See you next time.

EP 234 Scroll-Stopping Content: Retreat Marketing with a Social Media Pro with Alessia Tenebruso

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by Alessia Tenebruso—founder of One Girl Travel, retreat content creator, and social media strategist—for a juicy convo on how to create social media that actually converts.

Alessia shares the importance of having a dedicated content creator or social correspondent at your retreats to capture authentic, behind-the-scenes moments that build trust and spark FOMO (the good kind). They dive into how retreat leaders can stay visible and aligned online without burning out, plus tips on using platforms like Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok strategically.

Whether you're documenting a retreat or planning your next one, this episode is your blueprint for scroll-stopping, story-driven content that fills spots and builds your brand.

🎧 Tune in now and learn how to transform your retreat visibility—one post at a time.

🔗 Links Mentioned:

Alessia’s Website: https://www.onegirltravel.com
Follow Alessia on IG: @one_girl_travel

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Speaker 1 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon and I am over the moon excited about my guest today. She is another amazing human being that I met in France. This is not the same because we are not sipping on champagne in France, but I am getting to record with her and I am so excited. Welcome Alexia to the show! I'm so excited you're here.

Speaker 2 00:00:48 Thank you. It's so good to see you. I definitely miss you and all the fun we had in France.

Speaker 1 00:00:53 Oh my gosh, it was seriously life changing on so many levels, but probably the biggest one was meeting the people that I've met there.

Speaker 1 00:01:00 I have recorded shows about it and I have made posts about it. But if you are not up leveling yourself by getting into rooms with people who think higher, you know are just dreaming and envisioning and working towards bigger things. You're in the wrong spaces. And so that was just such an incredible experience. Plus, we're in France drinking champagne. I mean, come on.

Speaker 2 00:01:20 Exactly.

Speaker 1 00:01:21 It was a combination of amazingness. So why don't you first start off by just telling us who you are and what brought you to where you are at today?

Speaker 2 00:01:28 Sure. My name is Alessia Russo. I'm the owner of One Girl Travel. I am many things I like to consider myself, like the Martha Stewart of the internet. I'm a certified life coach. I am newly a certified travel advisor. I am a content creator. I am a brand visibility consulting coach, and I am also a event Social Media coordinator.

Speaker 1 00:01:52 Yes, to all of those things. And I saw quite a few of those things in action when we were in France.

Speaker 1 00:01:58 And I want to talk about that stuff, because when I met you and I was realizing what you were doing and what you do, and I saw your content, which just blew me away, I was like, oh my goodness, this is so important for retreat leaders, because I do think a lot of retreat leaders are willy nilly. They're social media and they're digital content in general. And one of the things I always talk about is my number one goal is to grow my email list, my email list. But the number one way to do that is through social media, y'all. If you only knew how many times we've tried to record and the oopses that I have done today, I'm just going to blame it on a very busy, fruitful, amazing weekend I had with my retreat alumni. I did a lot of yelling and screaming, so my voice is done and so is my brain almost. But what we're going to talk about is super important because number one, building our email list. But we have to do that through our digital presence.

Speaker 1 00:02:48 And the first thing people are going to look at when somebody is considering you or as a host or your business is your social media presence. It's a form of validation and it needs to be curated properly. one of the things I was talking about before we hit record was, you know, I see a lot of retreat leaders, especially new ones, but even some that have been trying to to kick around retreats for a while where they're like posting a cute picture of their kid and then their dog and then the retreat. And then, you know, this I don't know thing they saw on the news and then the retreat, like it's just all over the place and it's inconsistent. So could we just first talk about the importance of social media, the consistency of it, just, you know, in general why it's important to retreat leaders?

Speaker 2 00:03:31 Yeah, absolutely. And first, I totally agree with you about your mailing list because you don't own your followers on these social platforms. But like you said, like this is like where your credibility is.

Speaker 2 00:03:40 This is where they're getting to know you. So you're building community with your social media platforms, all of them. And each platform is very different. I in my opinion, I don't know if you agree with me on this, but I feel like Instagram is more of the curated, you know you got your whole like, page and it's all curated. Nice TikToks a little more rogue. I feel like I can have a little more fun, a little more behind the scenes on TikTok. Facebook is Facebook's Facebook. for Facebook, right? Like it's been around for a long time. But pretty much everything I post on Instagram just goes to Facebook. But basically, that's where people are going on your page to get to know you. And I know you mentioned about like posting family and kids and dogs and things that that's great for your personal page that doesn't belong on your business page unless it is carrying over to what you are trying to get across to your community.

Speaker 1 00:04:33 Right?

Speaker 2 00:04:33 But that's what stories are for, in my opinion.

Speaker 2 00:04:35 Stories, I think, are a great way to share behind the scenes of your life. People love stories. They love seeing what you do on the weekends with your family, your friends, but your actual social media feed. It should be intentional and you should be posting with purpose each time you post.

Speaker 1 00:04:52 Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor. Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats, so if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too. I love that you're saying it like this because you literally nailed what I see as a user, let alone, you know, a business that's that's using the platforms. I agree with TikTok, by the way. We only started our TikTok account so we could do like pranks on the ranch and like show some funny behind the scenes goofiness.

Speaker 1 00:05:34 And we've done some of that and I got to get better at it. But that is why I started TikTok. I thought that could be the more sassier branch of us. And then Instagram is very curated and Facebook is more like, here's an event, here's just some information, here's where we post our articles. It's SEO driven. It's, you know, it's got good stuff. Don't get me wrong. Depending on the age that you're targeting also might depend on which social media platform that you're spending a lot of time in. Very true, but I do agree. Each of them have their own kind of feel and layout to it. And I love that you said personal stuff. Personal page, unless it's stories. I totally agree with that so much. The stories is where people really, really get to know, like the person behind the brand, I think, or people behind the brand, like what's really happening, you know, behind the scenes. What are your struggles? What are your your successes? what are your your learning points or failures however you want to call them? And so I'm really excited that you you mentioned it that way.

Speaker 1 00:06:28 Are you laid it out that way?

Speaker 2 00:06:30 Yeah. I think it's a great opportunity for people to like, know and trust you. Right. Like that's the purpose of building your community. And they have to see that you're a real person, you know, especially if you're asking them to pay you for something. They need to know who they're paying and if they want to invest in you as a business owner.

Speaker 1 00:06:49 See, this is so funny about, I don't know. It was probably eight, eight or so years ago. I was hosting a retreat in Northern California, and those of you that were on this retreat, you'll remember this. And we're going around the table, you know, the opening night and just introducing ourselves. What do we do? And all that kind of fun stuff. And I don't know, about halfway through. So we probably have about seven women who've already gone, well, like, this next woman was like, my name is so-and-so, I work for the FBI, and I background checked you to make sure that this was a legit thing.

Speaker 1 00:07:17 And I was like, what? I mean, okay. And she was just very honest, like, you know, I just I didn't know if everything on social media was fake. If you know what was real, what wasn't real. And I just decided that I was going to use the tools that I had at my resources to check you out and make sure that I wasn't just giving my money away to some weird situation. Well, this was before, you know, the way social media is today. today, I think it's a little bit it's a little harder to curate a fake relationship on social media. You can. Absolutely. But if you're using the stories and you're using all the tools that are involved, and there's really you showing up the way, you know, you would want to show up to create that relationship. It's a little bit harder. But I just thought that was interesting because that once again, shows like to your point, if they're going to pay you money and they're going to show up to this space with strangers, like they need to feel like they can trust you.

Speaker 2 00:08:07 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 00:08:08 And so I just I'm so glad that you're pointing that out. Okay. When I met you in France, you were one of the participants, but you were also a social media curator, and you killed it. Because I remember going to bed every night, and I would scan what was going on in the social media world, and it would be like, oh my gosh, look at her post. And she like, did a recap of I think it was the day before. It might have been, I don't remember if it was that day or the day before. I think you were on purpose doing it a day behind. and so it was like, oh my gosh, how you curated it gave me such FOMO. And I was there. Like, I was like, if I wasn't a part of this, I would be like, how can I be a part of that and talk to me about that and why you like. Why is that part of one of the things that you do and how important that is?

Speaker 2 00:08:52 Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:08:52 And exactly what you said it is creating that foam because only a, not everybody can code to a retreat, right? Like you have. Oh 1015, 20 people at a retreat. There are hundreds of people that are watching you, and we're debating on attending the retreat and what I'm doing as a participant of the retreat that is documenting what is happening. I am bringing it to life for everybody that's not there because I am somebody that I. The way I network is by being in the room at events and I love it, I love conferences, I love just being in those rooms because of the energy, because you're with like minded people, like you're just vibing off each other. You're getting excited and like, you know the feeling when we were together, it's not something that can be really shown through photos, right? It's like by me talking to the community and telling them what's happening. And by sharing, like, these behind the scenes clips that nobody else knows about except for us, and I'm sharing it with everybody.

Speaker 2 00:09:58 Like they're getting to see what's really happening at these retreats. They're getting to see the transformation in real time. And I think it's such a great way of marketing your retreats because then they're seeing, okay. Like, look how much fun they had. Look at the transformations they had. Look at all the connections that were made. I want to go on that retreat. And so then they consider joining another retreat.

Speaker 1 00:10:21 So there's to me, there's a couple things that this is like hitting on. First of all, you're there. You're a participant. You're creating, curating content to create this FOMO, to create this future marketing. And what I highly suggest is, is if you decide to do something like this, which we're going to talk about in a moment, that you already have your next date available. So that way when someone's watching this curated content and they're having this immense FOMO, which I'm telling you, y'all, if you if you were to saw the stuff that we did and the magic that we were creating together as a group, you would have absolutely been like, I need to be there.

Speaker 1 00:10:54 And so you need to be able to say, yes, here's our next one. Here's our next one. Right. So so just being prepared for that at least a wait list. Like here's the landing page for the wait list at minimum. Right. But this was so powerful. So that being said, we've talked about how important social media is. The content on social media is the platforms on social media is talk to me about if somebody wanted to do or hire someone like you or hire you like, talk to me about the things that you provide that helps them build their marketing and build their business as a content creator or brand builder.

Speaker 2 00:11:25 Absolutely. So consistency is key when it comes to social media. You want to make sure, like if you have a retreat that you're posting consistently about, that retreat and what I help retreat host do is I post on their behalf, getting the excitement going for the retreat or whatever it is they're selling, like talking about it and just showing my experience through what they are offering.

Speaker 2 00:11:50 so really just build up your social media share, like where are we going to be? What are some of the things we're going to do? Tease them a little bit to get them excited and to follow along on that journey up until the actual retreat date. And then at the retreat, like that's where the magic is happening, you know, in real time. And the thing is, if you're a retreat host, it's hard to be in the moment and also try to capture your own content. And that's why, like.

Speaker 1 00:12:17 Really near impossible.

Speaker 2 00:12:19 Right?

Speaker 1 00:12:19 Like it is.

Speaker 2 00:12:21 I can't imagine it like it's very difficult. And I know, you know, you can hire professional photographers, but they're not getting that behind the scenes detail and like really the energy that's happening. So that's why I think it's great to have a content creator with you that can document everything. Because what they're doing, what I do is I am capturing thousands of videos and photos, and I am using them for future content for the retreat host.

Speaker 2 00:12:51 So after the retreat is over, all that content is getting repurposed and it's being used to sell the next one. It's being used to market whatever else is coming next, and you can just keep repurposing it over and over and you're getting a library full of content.

Speaker 1 00:13:07 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to retreat mastermind training and come join me across the pond. So what I'm hearing is having a content creator who helps you market ahead of time, market during as well as capturing, and then even help you create content after for future retreats.

Speaker 1 00:14:00 So it really just sounds like that we just need a content creator all the time. If I'm being honest.

Speaker 2 00:14:07 I mean the afterwards, like then you can you can use their videos because you'll have access to their library and then you can repurpose it as you want. If you don't want to keep them on to continuously make the content. But it's really, I think, having that creator on retreat with you, where you don't have to worry, you don't have to be on your phone, you don't have to do anything except be with your people. I think that is the biggest thing.

Speaker 1 00:14:32 I agree with you so much. one of the things that we do at our retreats is I have my retreat coordinator who helps me do that is I have a person that that's that's what they're doing. but she's not a content creator. She's she's young and she's, you know, got a little bit of that brain, but she's not a content creator. And so the difference to what she does, which is amazing to what you do, which is mind blowing.

Speaker 1 00:14:55 I think it's important to really look at, like, who's the person that you're going to invite into this role that's going to do this? because your content, you guys have to go back and find it, and I'll see if I can try to link some of the things. I know that some of them were stories there, but a lot of them were post anyway, my point is, is like from you throwing back the covers and grabbing a cup of coffee and walking the ground. You know what I mean? Like these things, those those details that create that feeling and that emotion of being there with the group, really getting a feel for like what the lodging really looks like and what the food experience really is and what the magic of the moment is, like all those little pieces that we try to explain in pictures or just descriptive words just don't care. They just don't even. Honestly, to me. Come close to the way you did in your content creation.

Speaker 2 00:15:47 Exactly. And I'm showing it from the point of view as an attendee, you know, so if somebody is worried about attending a retreat by themselves.

Speaker 2 00:15:56 And my focus with one girl travel originally was solo travel empowering women to travel the world by themselves, I've now expanded to empowering women to do anything that they want in life confidently. but it really helps ease their mind to like, okay, this is what it's going to look like on this retreat. Like, if she can do it, I can do it. And it's kind of just like giving them like those training wheels, like, okay, I can do this. I see somebody else do it. This is what I can expect to do.

Speaker 1 00:16:24 Ooh, that's such a good point. That really is such a good point, because there are a lot of first time retreat goers, and especially on the the female side of the world that are afraid. They're afraid to make that, that that commitment and show up to something that they really don't know if they are going to feel safe in. And I don't just mean physically, I mean all of it just feel safe and feel, you know, like this is a place that they're going to be accepted, that they're going to, you know, feel comfortable or they're going to love or they're going to like or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 00:16:51 They're just afraid to do it. And so when they can really see and actually feel through this content, it's really empowering.

Speaker 2 00:16:58 Absolutely. And I feel like when it's relatable, it's just it's so much more powerful because if we're just seeing, you know, models posing, like pretending to do things like that doesn't feel real. Like I want to see a real person go to this thing and see their, their actual, you know, how they feel when they're doing it, their actual experience. And that's what I'm sharing.

Speaker 1 00:17:24 Yes. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, if somebody wanted to work with you, how would they get Ahold of you and where can they find your information.

Speaker 2 00:17:32 Yeah. So you can email me at contact at. You can also go to my website. Com and I have all the ways you can work with me there. I'm on social media. it's at the word one. Underscore girl. Underscore travel. I'm all over the internet. You will find me if you type in one girl travel or Elisa.

Speaker 2 00:17:53 I'll be there.

Speaker 1 00:17:55 Yay! And I'll have all of that linked in the show notes. If you are driving or unable to, look it up right now. I'll have everything in this in the show notes. Well, I'm going to have to have you out to the ranch, so don't go anywhere because we are going to chat about that. And have you come experience a ranch retreat. But thank you so much for being on the show.

Speaker 2 00:18:12 Yes. Thank you. This was my pleasure. I love talking about this.

Speaker 1 00:18:16 Me too. Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at the Retreat. Com. See you next time.

EP 233 Lead Retreats Without Losing Yourself: The Joy Factor with Kelley Hartman

In this heartfelt and empowering episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, host Shannon Jamail sits down with Kelley Hartman to explore the transformative power of joy in retreat leadership. Kelley shares how a life-changing diversity retreat in her twenties sparked her passion for holding space and eventually led her to create her own retreats focused on joy, self-care, and aligned leadership.

Together, Shannon and Kelley dive deep into why joy is not just a nice-to-have, but a non-negotiable for any retreat leader who wants to avoid burnout and truly support others. They get candid about energy management, setting boundaries, and honoring your nervous system—especially when life throws challenges your way.

Whether you're a seasoned retreat host or dreaming of starting your first one, this episode reminds you that when you prioritize your own joy and well-being, you elevate the experience for everyone you serve.

Offerings from Kelley: Free 4 Step Outline to reset into joy: https://kelley-hartman.mykajabi.com/wildhartscollectivejoyresetsignup

Connect with Kelley: https://wildhartscollective.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

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Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Speaker 1 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat. Success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leader's podcast. It's Shannon and today I have such a special guest, although I have to preface it by saying this is not as fun as France because my guest is someone that I met while I was in France, and we were just saying right before we recorded that it was such a magical group and I missed that energy so, so very much. But I'm really excited to see you today. Kelly, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 00:00:54 Thank you. Very excited to be here.

Speaker 1 00:00:58 Yes. So Kelly Hartmann and I are going to talk about something that probably seems a little bit like.

Speaker 1 00:01:04 Wait a minute, Shannon, why are you talking about this? But I actually feel like it's super, super important for us as retreat leaders and what we do and how we serve. And it's just a very, very important aspect of our leadership. But before we dig into the topic, Kelly, just tell us about who you are and what brought you to where you are today.

Speaker 2 00:01:22 Great. Yeah. So I'm Kelly Hartman and I own Wild Hearts Collective, and I am a retreat leader. So the journey there is a little bit of a long one. I went to my first retreat in my 20s, and what really sparked my lifelong desire to host retreats was the amount of transformation that happens when you're on retreat. I met people there that I still connect with today, and that's 25 years later. and basically just learning the personal lived journeys needs of everyone there is what was life changing for me. It was a diversity retreat and it was getting that individual perspective. So when I hit 45, I said, I'm going to do what I wanted to do my whole life.

Speaker 2 00:02:11 I'm going to host retreats. And I was also in corporate. I already host leadership trainings. I created Elevate Her, I host the global mentorship program and did a lot of trainings and learning and development for corporate women. So I'm taking that out of practice and doing it and hosting retreats of my dreams. So that is why I started.

Speaker 1 00:02:36 Yay! You know what I love about this is that over 20 years ago, you had the spark and you're bringing it to fruition. And I think sometimes people, whether you're 40, 50, 60, 70, it doesn't even matter whatever your age is. But women, especially whatever that number is, that age in our head and we're like, yeah, I'm too old to do this now, you know? And I just, I call bullshit on that because there isn't an age that's too old. There just isn't. Okay. There isn't. And so, Kelly, I'm so, so glad that you were following your dreams now. And you're hosting these retreats because.

Speaker 1 00:03:16 Yeah, I met Kelly in France, as I mentioned, and her energy is yummy. Like, I just cannot even put it into proper words. And so spending time with her on retreat, I'm sure, would be a joy, which is exactly what we're going to talk about today, because Kelly and I in France, we were talking about some of the things that might be missing from a retreat leader's life, as far as you know, being the best version of them. And one of those things is focusing on joy. So, Kelly, can you just kind of talk to us a little bit more about this?

Speaker 2 00:03:50 Oh for sure. So as a retreat leader, you are facilitating the transformation of others on your retreat. And when you're doing that, that is having a requirement for you to hold space. And a lot of times, especially right now. Everything is so the world is messy and it's heavy. And every five seconds there's breaking news about something. And what that does is that triggers our nervous system to go into fight or flight.

Speaker 2 00:04:22 And it makes all of this anxiety and worry and fear come into our energetic field and build up in us. And when we have all this heaviness and fear and anxiety and we dysregulated our nervous system, that is what causes us to basically not be able to hold that space. As retreat leaders, we need to know how to step out of the grind, to step out of burnout to start with self-care so that we when we show up on retreat, we are the best version of ourselves. And that's when we talk about anchoring into joy. Because what is joy and what is required for you to actually experience joy? You have to feel safe, right? You have to feel your nervous system has to feel good for you to even get to experience joy. And once you get there, that is when expansiveness comes. That is when you're in flow. That is when you can give and pour into other people's cups.

Speaker 1 00:05:37 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss.

Speaker 1 00:05:42 I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind and come join me across the pond. Okay, I love this on so many levels. You are right, the world is messy. That's a really good way of putting it. I think the world's always messy, but it just feels extra loud. You know, at the moment. we've definitely in our lifetime, Kelly, we have seen some extra loud moments. probably. Maybe. You know, I'm sure more than previous decades. Only in the sense even that it's just so damn accessible. Too accessible in some ways.

Speaker 1 00:06:43 Yeah. But yes, that and also I want to piggyback on this because as Kelly knows, this last month has been really very difficult for me. I've had some losses and and when we're in those spaces, whether it's heaviness from the world and our nervous system is disruptive or very personalized heaviness and we're disrupted. I think it's important that we remember that's not the time to create when we're in that space, when we're in that space of full disruption, full nervous system panic, whatever you want to call it. That's not the time to reach out. That's as far as reaching out to your, marketing efforts or your creation efforts or whatever may be the case. Maybe that's when you rely on a team member and you're like, hey, I need you to step up for me, or you hire it out for that moment, or you just take a break. But it's like, we need to honor that. There are times in life we're going to push, right? We're going to push through things.

Speaker 1 00:07:38 You know, you stub your toe, push through it, whatever. But there are also times when your nervous system is telling you, okay, we we can't we can't go on. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 00:07:48 Yes. And it's so important that we learn to honor that in ourselves, because we have to learn how that we can honor that in our participants and see that and help them through that. In a lot of times, especially in the world right now, it's the hustle bustle. We got to go. We're we're women entrepreneurs, right? So we have a lot of big goals, a lot of big dreams. And I know that we hustle a lot. We're always kind of like, I gotta get this done and do that. And we don't take or make the space always to breathe, to anchor in, to return to our body out of our mind. And that causes those cortisol levels to rise, the anxiety, the panic. And it takes a toll on your physical and mental health and is so important for us to listen to our body, to rest like you said, to take a break and rest and recalibrate Because we're able to come back stronger than before.

Speaker 2 00:08:48 It's so important.

Speaker 1 00:08:51 Yeah. This is such a good reminder to me sometimes I forget. And I think many of our listeners forget that it doesn't always have to be pushed through it. It reminds me when I used to have my private practice for mental health. If I sat with a particularly heavy session with a client, I had to work really hard to reset myself so I didn't take it into the next session. It wouldn't be fair to that next patient for me to bring the previous patient's heaviness to them, right? And it's the same aspect here, Kelly, especially for those of us who are holding space. I'm just going to say it. You really should not be bringing your heaviness into the space that other people are trying to share their heaviness. It's just not appropriate. I know people are listening, are going to disagree with me. They're going to think, well, that's a safe space for everybody to do it. You know what? Yes, but not for the leader. The leader has to do their own processing, their own leaning in, their own resetting.

Speaker 1 00:09:44 Separate. It really is. That is not the time and space for you to bring your heaviness in. It really alludes the whole point of a retreat for the guests that are paying to participate with you as a leader. It's okay to say, hey, I'm experiencing heaviness today. We're going to start our workshop a little bit later and then you do your thing. I'm not saying that you're going to show up and pretend like everything's okay. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, you're not bringing your shit into the same space that everybody else is trying to hold their heaviness or share their stuff, and, and I just I'm super passionate about that. And this is a really good reminder for myself as well.

Speaker 2 00:10:23 100%. And that's and this is what I definitely want to talk about that this is not toxic positivity. This is not you should be enjoy every single day. And if you're not, enjoy it because that's bullshit. That is total bullshit. What this is, is that this is a reminder that we have tools and that to use those tools to really listen to your body and recalibrate your energy.

Speaker 2 00:10:46 You own your experience on this planet, and when you choose to be a retreat leader, you're choosing to guide others and help them in their experience. And it's absolutely correct. You need to go in able to facilitate transformation. If you're in your own shit, you can't facilitate that transformation. You just you have to deal with that first. And having those tools to reset into joy, into calibrate to that is huge. It allows you to be expansive. It allows you to hold energy and space for others and allow them on their journey for transformation.

Speaker 1 00:11:23 Yes. Thank you for this topic. I think it's so very important, and it's just one of those things that's often overlooked. as I shared, things have been really heavy with me, and one of the decisions that I made this August, I was having my retreat leader mastermind, and I'm actually Rescheduling it because it's just not the right time for me to hold space for others because I'm bringing my shit with me. And so I'm super transparent about that and making sure that, you know, I'm making decisions that are sound for my body and safe for me, but also for my guests.

Speaker 1 00:11:58 I am still having my alumni retreat. for those that don't know what that is, is every other year, sometimes three years, but usually every other year, I host a retreat that's just for alumni. That means they've been on my retreat before. They know exactly who I am and what's going on. And I had a real heart to heart with myself and the group, and they are well aware of what I'm going through. And this is just a party. It's just a gathering. There's no transformation, there's no promise. There's no holding space necessarily. We're just coming together to celebrate. And we're all very excited about it. And I'm actually excited about it. My alumni retreat, because I just I feel safe with them just as much as they feel safe with me. And it's, you know, there's there's just a really good, And, it's just a really good vibe with this group and it's just going to be so fun. But I've really honored. The thing that I've put forth that I'm saying is I'm not creating anything in this time.

Speaker 1 00:12:48 In this time. This time of my own heaviness. It's not fair to the people who might be receiving receiving it, but also they're not going to receive the, the, the my true heart right now. They're going to receive my broken heart or my grief heart or my guilt heart or whatever it is that I'm feeling inside. That's what they're going to receive. And that's not that's not representative who who I am. And so whether it's big like the world or like loss or anything like that, or whether it's just you struggle with sadness sometimes or you struggle with whatever, you know, or you've got, you know, difficulties in an important relationship, whatever that that is, you've got to lean into that and not bring it with you into your transformative spaces. And I think you, you know, you, Kelly especially, you offer tools and thoughts on how you can maybe tune out of that darkness.

Speaker 2 00:13:42 Yes. Yeah, because we do have those. And first I want to say, thank you for sharing that and being vulnerable because you're setting an example and telling people that it's okay to pivot.

Speaker 2 00:13:55 you know, when I work with women, both inside and outside of corporate, there's a lot of fear about, perception or quote unquote feeling, which is such bullshit. Sorry. But in that if we don't do things the way that we thought, if we don't, if we pivot, that's a failure. But you are actually doing something amazing for both you and the attendees and doing it in a space that will be transformative for them and bringing your best self when you can. So that's that's setting a huge example for everyone. And that's just amazing. So thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 1 00:14:34 Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor. Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats. So if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too.

Speaker 1 00:14:56 Yeah. No, absolutely I, I really I. My, my motto is to try to walk the talk. And so what I teach I really I really do want to walk and I it was a really hard message to send to the attendees for August. and it was really it's been really hard, even for those that keep inquiring about it. but also feels right. It's hard, you know, the hard that feels right. That's what this is. This is the hard that feels right. And so I want my thing was, especially I had this conversation with an attendee who was really disappointed. But my thing was I want to show up and give my best self. I don't want to bring this and set it on your plate. or or do a half ass, you know, retreat for you. That's just not okay. And so anyway, so yeah, I feel really good about it. As hard as it is, I don't feel good about it. I feel good that the decision was the right decision to make.

Speaker 1 00:15:52 just like I feel good that spending time with my retreat alumni who are coming tomorrow and I can't wait to see them. feels also very good, because I know that that's not going to require me holding space necessarily. My team can do it if that needs to be happening, but most my alumni retreats, I'm just going to be honest. It's just a party. It's a girl party.

Speaker 2 00:16:11 That's awesome. So, so. And that is what we talk about a lot right now. And what I do is I gather the women we're gathering, the women gathering women in circles is so important and amazing. and just that space. But again, it's that that awesome and just radical honesty that you have, that this is what this experience is. It's not a retreat. It's a party. And that is. Yeah, that's exactly what will be expected of attendees. And they're excited to see you. They've already been through that transformation with you. And they they understand. So that is totally amazing.

Speaker 1 00:16:48 Yes.

Speaker 1 00:16:49 Yeah it really is. And plus the outpouring of love from them has been just beautiful. So, well Kelly, tell us, like if somebody wants to spend more time with you because I think that they would benefit from it greatly. Tell me some of the offerings that you currently have.

Speaker 2 00:17:03 Sure. So I am hosting a retreat in September called Joy as Revolution and we are taking, this experience is amazing because it's allowing people to experience joy in different ways. So joy isn't always this exciting, passionate, like, oh, I'm in joy. I take everyone through the four elements. so how do you feel in Earth as you're experiencing joy. And that's a grounded joy of feeling stable or air. How does air feel? That's going to be light and that's doing breathwork and feeling alive. Or if you look at fire, fire is that passion. That's the creativity. So that's doing art, that's dancing, that's, you know, yelling at the moon, that fiery. And then last is water.

Speaker 2 00:17:52 And that's when you're in flow and you let go of the things that we hold so deep. So the transformation that's coming there and what I specialize in, and that's with all of my offerings, is getting you out of your head and into your body. Your body knows. And you talked about that you felt into your decisions about both retreats. Your intuition told you what was right and you listened. And what I see so much in women is we ignore intuition because societal expectations tell us No. You should push through this. You should act a certain way. We have these expectations of how you show up and how you act. So I specialize in getting women to get into their bodies so they can transform and listen and learn and feel. And then they trust their intuition. And that is when the magic happens.

Speaker 1 00:18:50 Oh, yes. Thank you. And may I have another I love this so much. And I will have Kelly's website linked in the show notes. So that way you can go check out her offerings.

Speaker 1 00:19:00 And I think you even have a free gift for our listeners. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the free gift?

Speaker 2 00:19:05 Yeah, it's my four tips to a joy reset. So it's exactly that. It's just an easy little thing that you can do really quickly. It has, some reprogramming and I'm certified. So it just is something that helps you get out of the loops that we have, those thought loops or anxiety or fear and gets you into your body so you can anchor into joy and you can visualize your best self and live as that self. And it's under five minutes. So really easy little quick thing.

Speaker 1 00:19:34 Yay. Well that will also be linked in the show notes. So Kelly, thank you so much for coming on the show and just reminding us of what we need to be really focusing on as effective leaders in our industry, rather than just the metrics or social media or the right offering or the right workshop or all of these things that we think are super important and they are important to a certain degree.

Speaker 1 00:19:58 But really, it all starts with our inner joy. So thank you so much, Kelly, for being on the show.

Speaker 2 00:20:05 Oh, thank you so much, Shannon. I greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 1 00:20:08 Thanks for listening to the Retreat Leaders podcast. Learn more at the Retreat. Com. See you next time.

Bio of Happy Hour Podcast

The Happy Hour Podcast, hosted by best-selling author Shannon Jamail, invites listeners to join in on engaging conversations about business, life, relationships, and topics commonly discussed during happy hour gatherings. With a focus on connection, growth, and thriving, the podcast aims to provide valuable insights and foster a sense of community among its listeners.

Happy Hour offers various retreats and training designed to support personal and professional development. These events provide opportunities for individuals to connect with others, expand their knowledge, and enhance their well-being. Retreat Ranch, a special retreat center located near Austin, Texas, serves as a dedicated space for intimate retreats, events, and unique overnight stays.

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Latest Episodes

EP 239 Beyond the Logo: Branding That Sells Retreats with Kara Hollinger

Outgrowing Clients & Owning Your Worth as a Retreat Leader with Raisah Bickram

EP 238 Beyond the Retreat: Hybrid Business Models for Maximum Impact with Alison Katschkowsky

EP 237 True North Leadership: Building Profitable Men’s Retreats with Brent McCann

Why Most Retreat Leaders Fail to Sell Out — and How to Fix It with Erin Haag

EP 236 From Sold-Out to Profitable: Mastering Retreat Marketing & Loyalty with Leni Cavazos

EP 235 Who Do You Need to Become? When Your Retreat Planning Isn’t Working

EP 234 Scroll-Stopping Content: Retreat Marketing with a Social Media Pro with Alessia Tenebruso

EP 233 Lead Retreats Without Losing Yourself: The Joy Factor with Kelley Hartman

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