Happy Hour Podcast

In this solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about something every retreat leader needs to hear: failure isn't the enemy - it's proof that you're in the game.

If you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough. Shannon dives into why "falling short" - whether it's your finances, your workshop, your attendance, or your execution - isn't something to avoid, it's something to learn from.

You can hire the best coach, join the smartest program, and learn from the pros… and you'll still make mistakes. The difference? You'll fail faster and smarter.

Shannon also shares how community is the real secret weapon for success - and how the Retreat Industry Forum is designed to bring that support, connection, and collective wisdom together for retreat hosts ready to grow.

Key Takeaways

• If you're not failing, you're not stretching yourself enough.

• Failure doesn't mean your retreat "flopped" — it means something fell short and gave you data.

• The biggest mistake is waiting on the sidelines instead of doing the thing.

• Coaching and programs can help minimize expensive mistakes, but you'll still fail — that's how you grow.

• Community is what turns failure into forward momentum — and that's exactly what the Retreat Industry Forumis all about.

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in Denver at the Retreat Industry Forum 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps

Failure as Evidence of Progress (00:01:09) Explains why failure means you're taking action and is a necessary part of growth in the retreat business.

Defining Failure in Retreats (00:02:10) Clarifies what failure actually looks like in retreats—missed goals, missteps, and learning opportunities.

Personal Failures and Lessons Learned (00:03:17) Shannon shares her own failures and how each one contributed to her growth and resilience.

Taking Action vs. Waiting (00:04:27) Encourages listeners to take action rather than waiting for perfect conditions, emphasizing learning by doing.

The Necessity of Investment (00:05:24) Discusses the importance of investing time, money, and energy into building a sustainable retreat business.

Retreat Industry Forum Promotion (00:06:32) Promotes the upcoming Retreat Industry Forum event, highlighting its value for industry professionals.

Value of Coaching and Courses (00:06:32) Explains how coaching and courses can help avoid mistakes but emphasizes that failure is still part of the process.

Treating Retreats as a Business (00:07:37) Urges listeners to approach retreats professionally, not as a hobby, and to invest in education and growth.

Importance of Community (00:08:40) Highlights the role of community and support in overcoming challenges and learning from others in the industry.

Continuous Learning and Industry Evolution (00:09:45) Stresses the importance of ongoing learning, innovation, and collaboration in the ever-evolving retreat industry.

Encouragement and Call to Action (00:10:53) Encourages listeners to keep moving forward, join the community, and treat their retreat business seriously.

If you're still marketing your retreats like it's 2022, you're already behind.

In this solo episode, Shannon Jamail drops the truth about how the digital marketing landscape has shifted - and why AI integration isn't optional anymore. From Google rewriting your meta descriptions to the rise of algorithmic visibility, the retreat industry is evolving fast.

Shannon breaks down how retreat leaders can start using AI tools strategically - not just for blogs and social media, but to analyze data, personalize messaging, and scale visibility.

She also gives a sneak peek at the Full AI + Marketing Blueprint that she, Erin Haag, and Alison Katschkowsky will unveil at the Retreat Industry Forum in Denver.

Because what worked last year? Isn't what's working now.

Key Takeaways

• AI is changing how every digital platform decides who gets seen.

• Your content needs to speak to humans and machines to stay visible.

• AI isn't here to replace your creativity — it's here to free you to create more connection.

• Marketing that worked a year ago is outdated today.

• You need a plan that evolves as fast as technology — and that's what's coming at the Forum.

 The Retreat Industry Forum — May 14–17, 2026 | Denver, CO
 Learn more at retreatindustryforum.com

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in Denver at the Retreat Industry Forum 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps

Introduction & Podcast Overview (00:00:02) Shannon introduces herself, the podcast, and the focus on building profitable, impactful retreat businesses.

Why AI & SEO Matter Now (00:01:16) Explains why traditional marketing is outdated and the necessity of integrating AI and SEO into retreat marketing.

The Shift in Marketing: Context & Authority (00:02:21) Discusses how AI is changing marketing from keywords to context and authority, and the importance of adapting quickly.

AI's Impact on Digital Visibility (00:03:28) Describes how platforms use AI to determine visibility and why digital presence must be optimized for both humans and AI.

Google's AI Meta Descriptions & Forum Promo (00:04:27) Mentions Google testing AI-written meta descriptions and promotes the upcoming Retreat Industry Forum.

Practical Ways to Use AI in Retreat Marketing (00:05:36) Outlines actionable AI strategies: smarter research, automatic content repurposing, performance analysis, and personalized communication.

The Need for Strategic, AI-Optimized Content (00:07:48) Emphasizes that visibility now depends on algorithmic, AI-optimized content, not just posting attractive photos or reels.

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Justin Gottlieb - a sexual freedom coach, Tantra practitioner, and retreat host who transitioned from the corporate world to full-time facilitation. Together, they unpack what Tantra really is (and isn't), how to maintain integrity in intimate retreat settings, and why it's time for more men to step into leadership roles in the wellness and retreat space.

Justin shares how he and his co-facilitator Leola create transformational retreats rooted in safety, consent, and empowerment - and how they've built a sustainable retreat business model that honors both healing and profitability.

If you've ever been curious about Tantra, gender balance in leadership, or how to elevate the professionalism of your retreat business, this episode is a must-listen.

Key Takeaways

• Tantra is more than sexuality - it's about energy, presence, and deep personal growth through mindfulness, breathwork, and embodiment.
• Safety and consent are non-negotiable: Justin and Leola's application and interview process ensures aligned participants and safe group dynamics.
• Professionalism matters: Transparent communication with venues and strong operational systems allow facilitators to focus on transformation instead of logistics.
• Masculine–feminine balance: Co-facilitation across genders can create more grounded and powerful retreat experiences.
• Retreats as a real business: Pricing, screening, and intentional marketing are essential to attract committed clients and avoid burnout.

Episode Highlights

[02:15] Justin's transition from corporate life to Tantra and retreat facilitation.
[07:40] Redefining Tantra and clearing misconceptions about Neo-Tantra.
[14:10] How Justin screens participants and ensures emotional safety.
[19:25] The power of venue transparency and building trust with hosts like Retreat Ranch.
[25:50] Why masculine presence is vital in retreat leadership.
[32:00] Pricing, profitability, and shifting the scarcity mindset in the retreat industry.

Listen to This Episode If You:

• Want to better understand Tantra from a grounded, professional lens.
• Are interested in how men can contribute meaningfully in the retreat space.
• Need inspiration for creating safer, more inclusive, and more profitable retreats.
• Are a retreat leader looking to blend purpose and profit without compromising integrity.

Connect with Justin: https://tantralovecoach.com/ 

Instagram: @tantralovecoach

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in Denver at the Retreat Industry Forum 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps

Justin's Background & Journey to Tantra (00:02:16) Justin shares his transition from corporate to coaching, focusing on intimacy, sexuality, and tantra.

First Retreat Experience & Organization (00:03:48) Discussion of Justin's first retreat, its organization, and Shannon's impressions as a venue owner.

Misconceptions About Tantra (00:04:43) Justin addresses common myths about tantra, clarifying its true focus and practices.

Ideal Retreat Attendees (00:06:42) Justin describes the types of people who attend his retreats and what draws them in.

Screening Process & Boundaries (00:08:23) Justin explains his thorough screening process and the importance of boundaries for safety.

Retreat Industry Forum Announcement (00:10:36) Shannon promotes the upcoming Retreat Industry Forum event in Denver.

Venue Selection & Importance of Safety (00:11:55) Justin discusses what he values in a retreat venue, emphasizing safety, privacy, and support.

Men in the Retreat Industry (00:16:43) Conversation about the underrepresentation of men as retreat leaders and the value of male facilitators.

Profitability & Pricing Mindset (00:19:22) Discussion on treating retreats as a business, pricing strategies, and differences in mindset between men and women.

Screening Through Pricing & Value (00:20:50) Justin explains how pricing acts as a screening tool and why higher investment leads to better outcomes.

Scholarships & Guest Challenges (00:22:41) Both discuss challenges with scholarship attendees and the importance of a strong screening process.

Market Rate & Industry Mindset (00:23:28) Shannon and Justin talk about raising market rates and shifting scarcity mindsets in the industry.

Value Perception & Pricing Story (00:24:23) Justin shares a story illustrating how higher prices increase perceived value and participant commitment.

How to Connect with Justin (00:26:30) Justin provides his contact information and describes his offerings for those interested in working with him.

Episode Wrap-Up & Outro (00:27:25) Shannon thanks Justin, closes the episode, and shares where to find more resources.

In this heartfelt and honest episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail reconnects with former retreat guest and midlife women's life coach, Remi Gibbs, to talk about everything from freezing yurts to forgiveness-and how retreats offer powerful portals for healing and purpose.

Together, they dive into:

• Remi's unforgettable experience at Retreat Ranch (spoiler: it involves a hot tub and sub-zero temps)
• The difference between acceptance and true forgiveness—and why that distinction matters
• How Shannon handled an unexpected power outage like a pro (a lesson in leadership grace)
• The untapped power of retreats for women navigating midlife, menopause, and major life transitions
• Why healthy habits and hormonal support are non-negotiables for long-term transformation

Whether you're a retreat leader or a woman in the middle of her own life reinvention, this episode is your permission slip to show up real, resilient, and ready to grow.

Learn more: 

Midlife Life Coach + Founder of [Renovated Realities]

https://www.renovatedrealities.com/ 

Instagram: @renovatedrealities

LinkedIn: @remigibbs

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps:

In this uplifting and practical episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by UK-based performance coach and former professional dancer Lucy Dutton to talk about something not enough retreat leaders are addressing: how to lead retreats without sacrificing your own well-being.

Lucy shares her powerful journey from the high-stakes world of professional dance to wellness and peak performance coaching—and how her deep understanding of energy, values, and leadership now helps retreat leaders avoid burnout.

Together, they explore:

✅ Why energy management matters more than location or food
✅ The hidden danger of leading retreats while running on empty
✅ How to use your personal values as a decision-making compass
✅ Why your environment directly impacts your energy
✅ The difference between holding space and emotionally oversharing
✅ How to stay inspired and grounded even during high-demand retreats

Whether you're planning your first retreat or you're a seasoned pro, this conversation will help you lead from a place of calm, clarity, and conviction.

About Lucy:

Lucy J Dutton is a certified peak performance coach and speaker , international best selling author with 30 years of experience coaching entrepreneurs on productivity, goal setting, and transforming limiting beliefs. She empowers female holistic service based entrepreneurs and small business owners to become peak performers in life and business.

So that their business grows easily, and they experience fulfilment and joy in their personal life.

Lucy was a professional dancer for 10 years and has been an entrepreneur and coach for over 3 decades. 

Despite the fact that she used to be painfully shy, she found her voice by pushing through the awkward and uncomfortable times. Gradually building her self-confidence and self-belief.

She has founded her own Holistic Peak Performance Coaching business to complement the health coaching she was already doing. With health and fitness being the foundation of everything she does.

Learn more: https://lucyjdutton.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps

Guest Introduction: Lucy Dutton's Background (00:01:43) Lucy shares her journey from professional dancer to peak performance coach.

The Demands of Dancing and Self-Care (00:04:08) Discussion about the physical and emotional demands of dancing and the importance of self-care.

Retreat Leaders' Energy Drain (00:05:35) Shannon describes how retreat leaders often neglect their own well-being, leading to exhaustion.

The Importance of Energy and Daily Practices (00:07:32) Lucy explains the significance of maintaining personal energy and implementing daily self-care practices.

Understanding and Aligning with Core Values (00:09:09) Lucy discusses discovering personal values and how misalignment can affect retreat experiences.

Creating Supportive Environments (00:10:24) Lucy outlines the importance of physical, social, and informational environments for retreat leaders.

Avoiding Negative Influences and Comparison (00:11:55) Shannon emphasizes avoiding negative news, unsupportive people, and comparison with other retreat leaders.

Deep Dive into Values and Retreat Alignment (00:15:50) Lucy explains how knowing your values helps in choosing the right retreat venues and collaborators.

Energy as the Key to Retreat Success (00:19:22) Shannon highlights that a leader's energy can make or break a retreat, outweighing venue or food quality.

How to Work with Lucy Dutton (00:20:14) Lucy shares how listeners can connect with her for coaching and personal development.

Episode Wrap-Up and Resources (00:21:10) Shannon thanks Lucy, mentions additional resources, and closes the episode.

In this heart-filled and high-impact episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with luxury couples retreat host Lesley Jordan to explore the real keys to retreat success-and spoiler alert: it's not just about the perfect venue or a pretty website.

From her beginnings as a travel agent to launching powerful, profitable retreats for couples of all backgrounds, Lesley shares how mentorship, strategic pricing, and relationship-first marketing changed the game for her. Together, Shannon and Lesley dig into:

• How to actually pick the right business coach (hint: ask about profit)
• Why building real connections beats flashy marketing
• What it takes to design inclusive retreats that sell out and transform lives
• The truth about vetting mentors in a saturated online space
• Lesley's upcoming LGBTQ+ and heterosexual couples retreats focused on love, intimacy, and reconnection

If you're building a retreat brand that centers around depth, authenticity, and aligned growth—this one's for you.

Learn more: www.lavishcouplesretreats.com 

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps:

Introducing Leslie Jordan (00:01:00)
Shannon introduces guest Leslie Jordan, highlighting her energy and inviting her to share her background.

Leslie's Journey to Retreats (00:01:35)
Leslie shares her transition from travel agent to retreat curator, focusing on luxury retreats for couples and women.

The Power of Coaching in Retreat Business (00:02:25)
Discussion on meeting through a coach, the importance of having a coach, and the loneliness of entrepreneurship.

Finding the Right Coach (00:03:16)
Leslie describes her experience with different coaches, learning about business models, pricing, and defining her retreat offerings.

Building Relationships Over Pretty Marketing (00:04:00)
Leslie explains the importance of building genuine relationships with clients, not just relying on attractive websites.

Creating Lavish Couples Retreats (00:05:02)
Leslie talks about launching her own retreat business, focusing on reconnection and intimacy for various types of couples.

The Value of Multiple Coaches (00:05:24)
Shannon and Leslie discuss the benefits of having more than one coach with different expertise.

Marketing vs. Selling & Relationship Building (00:06:02)
Emphasis on turning marketing activities into real relationships and the changing landscape of the retreat industry.

Learning Strategy and Pricing (00:06:52)
Leslie shares how her coaches helped her with sales strategies, pricing, and repeat business.

Choosing Experienced Coaches (00:07:29)
Shannon stresses the importance of working with experienced coaches who understand the retreat business deeply.

Treating Retreats as a Business (00:09:00)
Discussion on treating retreats as a business model, not just an event, and integrating it with other offerings.

Overcoming Fear and Stagnation (00:09:18)
Leslie recounts how the wrong coaching held her back and how the right coaches helped her move forward.

Vetting Coaches and Profitability (00:10:36)
Advice on vetting coaches, asking about their experience, and ensuring they understand profitability in retreats.

Industry Trends and Red Flags (00:11:37)
Warning about inexperienced coaches and the importance of understanding all aspects of the retreat business.

Profitability is Essential (00:11:59)
Shannon and Leslie agree that breaking even is not a sustainable business model for retreats.

Attending Retreats as Research (00:12:31)
Leslie shares the value of attending retreats, especially those hosted by your coach, to learn logistics and marketing.

The Importance of Being an Attendee (00:13:11)
Shannon emphasizes that aspiring retreat leaders should attend retreats themselves to gain perspective.

Community and Networking Benefits (00:15:07)
Discussion on the community, networking, and collaborations that come from being part of a coaching group.

Ongoing Value of Retreat Attendance (00:16:24)
Leslie and Shannon discuss the ongoing benefits of attending retreats, including support, networking, and personal growth.

Leslie's Upcoming Retreats (00:17:18)
Leslie shares details about her upcoming retreats for LGBTQ+ and heterosexual couples, and her inclusive approach.

How to Connect with Leslie (00:18:52)
Leslie provides her website and social media handles for listeners to learn more or join her retreats.

Shannon Jamail, Erin Haag, and Alison Katschkowsky come together on this special episode to officially announce the Retreat Industry Forum happening May 14–17, 2026 in Colorado. In this conversation, they share the vision behind the event, why this gathering is unlike anything else in the retreat industry, and what attendees can expect-from powerful keynotes and interactive workshops to a VIP experience designed for deeper strategy and connection.

The big news? The interest list opens TODAY (October 15th) for 10 days only! Those on the list will have first dibs at VIP tickets before they're released to the general public on November 1st. If you've been waiting for your chance to learn from top retreat leaders and transform the way you build, market, and profit from retreats, now's the time to get in early

Get on the list: retreatindustryforum.com 

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in Colorado 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps

You do not have to run yourself ragged to host powerful, profitable retreats, and this episode is proof.

In this honest and hilarious conversation, Shannon Jamail sits down with Anna VanAgtmael, founder of Wandering Roots and host of 22 retreats since 2018, to explore how retreat leaders can ditch the pressure, drop the people-pleasing, and build a business that's both meaningful and sustainable.

They dive into:

• The biggest mistakes new retreat leaders make (and how to avoid them)
• Pricing with confidence and energetic alignment
• Why less on the itinerary often leads to more transformation
• How to stop comparing your retreat to everyone else's

Whether you're an aspiring host or a seasoned retreat pro, this conversation will give you the permission slip you didn't know you needed: you don't have to do it all to make it amazing.

Connect with Anna: https://www.yourwanderingroots.com/ 

Instagram: @yourwanderingroots 

Special Offer: Build a profitable retreat in one minute per day: https://retreat.yourwanderingroots.com/ 

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps:

Introduction & Host Welcome (00:00:02)
Shannon introduces the podcast, its purpose, and encourages listeners to subscribe and leave reviews.

Guest Introduction: Anna's Background (00:01:13)
Anna is introduced; she shares her experience hosting retreats and helping others plan profitable ones.

Anna's Journey to Retreats (00:02:23)
Anna describes her transition from lab manager to retreat leader after a car accident and discovering yoga.

Current Retreat Structure & Ideal Guests (00:03:46)
Anna explains her current retreat schedule, types of retreats, and the demographics of her typical guests.

Transitioning & Scaling Back Retreats (00:05:00)
Discussion about scaling back the number of retreats to focus on quality and personal fulfillment.

Avoiding Burnout & Preserving Passion (00:06:04)
Anna and Shannon discuss the importance of not overworking and maintaining excitement for each retreat.

Profitability Without Pressure (00:07:19)
Exploring how retreats can be profitable without feeling pressured to do everything or mimic others.

Retreats: Business vs. Expensive Hobby (00:09:29)
Emphasis on treating retreats as a business, not just a passion project or costly hobby.

Letting Go of People-Pleasing & Overstuffed Itineraries (00:11:03)
Advice on avoiding over-scheduling and people-pleasing, and ensuring retreats have free time and focus.

Pricing, Money Beliefs, and Value (00:13:13)
Discussion on pricing retreats, overcoming limiting beliefs about money, and ensuring energetic alignment with pricing.

Gender Differences in Pricing & Money Mindset (00:15:04)
Comparison of how men and women price retreats, and the impact of cultural money beliefs.

Profit, Burnout, and Lifestyle Alignment (00:17:24)
Importance of pricing for sustainability and creating a lifestyle you enjoy, not just covering costs.

Common Mistakes & Lessons Learned (00:18:34)
Anna shares mistakes like trying to do everything alone, not arriving early, and the value of support staff.

Arriving Early & Staying After Retreats (00:20:15)
Best practices for arriving before and staying after retreats to ensure smooth experiences and self-care.

Self-Care for Retreat Leaders (00:21:34)
The importance of post-retreat downtime, rest, and self-care for leaders after guests depart.

How to Connect with Anna (00:22:40)
Anna shares her websites for those interested in attending or planning retreats with her.

In this solo Q&A episode, Shannon Jamail tackles the 12 most frequently asked questions from aspiring and experienced retreat leaders alike.

From knowing when you're truly ready to host a retreat, to choosing the right venue, pricing for profit, and marketing without sounding salesy, Shannon covers it all with no-fluff, straight-shooting advice.

Whether you're just starting out or looking to sharpen your strategy, these questions are the ones that come up in her DMs, workshops, and mastermind calls every single week.

With years of experience as a retreat host and venue owner, Shannon shares what works (and what to avoid) so you can build profitable, transformational retreats with confidence.

You'll walk away with clarity, strategy, and a new level of confidence around your retreat business!

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Join me in London
• Get your legal docs for retreats

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon Jamail 00:00:02  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast. The show for visionary coaches, healers, wellness pros and small business owners who aren't just here to host another feel good getaway, but to build a profitable, impactful retreat business. I'm your host, Shannon Jamail, retreat strategist, business mentor, and owner of a 46 acre retreat center. I've hosted over 100 retreats around the world, and I've made every mistake so you don't have to. Each week we'll dive into the mindset, marketing, money, business and mechanics behind sold out profitable retreats. Plus, hear from expert guests who are walking the talk. Whether you're planning your first retreat or scaling your 100th, you're in the right place. Welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Welcome to our welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. I am coming off of an Incredible three day conference that I cannot wait to tell you guys more about. I'm still processing, but it literally is going to change how I show up in what I do and just how I show up as a human.

Shannon Jamail 00:01:10  I'm that excited about it. But today, what we're going to talk about is the top 12 questions I get asked all the time, whether it's from podcast listeners or in my Facebook group or emails or messages like these are the top 12 questions that I get asked all the time. All right, let's dig in. First one, how do I know if I'm ready to lead a retreat? This is such a good question. And actually, if you're asking this question, you're on the right track, period. Because I think too many times people just jump in, they start planning things and making websites and all this stuff, and they have not done any of the work that's really required in order to start hosting retreats. And the first one is asking yourself, how do I know if I'm ready? And to me, there's a few things. The first one is do you have a clear purpose for the retreat? Not just a desire to travel or gather people, but like a clear purpose, a clear promise? What is the transformation? What is the guest going to experience and feel, and what's going to be different at the end of your retreat? Is it super clear? Are you super clear on who you're going to serve? Who is that guest? And I mean super clear.

Shannon Jamail 00:02:24  Like crystal clear. That guest has a name. It's a full avatar. It is. You know exactly who they are, where they live, how much money they make, if they're working out of the home, if they're working in the home, you know where they shop. You know what social platforms they're on. You know exactly who this person is that you are marketing to. So crystal clear on the promise, the transformation and crystal clear on who you are serving. And this isn't just I think I know and go for it. No, this is writing it down. Journaling it out. Getting really deep and nitty gritty in knowing who this person is and what the promises of the transformation is. I cannot emphasize this enough how important this is. So those are the first two things that are really important, because the confidence is going to come from the clarity. Like, truly, your confidence will come from the clarity of knowing exactly who you're going to serve and exactly how you're going to serve and how they're going to feel at the end of your retreat, the transformation that you're going to facilitate.

Shannon Jamail 00:03:25  So that's super important. Before you start hosting, before you even put together anything, there's two things I think you should do. Also the first one is attend retreats. If you've never attended a retreat, you have no business hosting a retreat. I'm just going to say it just like that. You have no business hosting retreats if you're not attending retreats. And when you do start hosting retreats, you should continue to attend retreats. You have to walk the talk. Okay. So attend retreats. You're going to learn so much on retreats. First of all, you're going to get whatever transformation they are promising ideally. But also you're going to learn. What did you love about it? What did you not like about it? How are you going to structure your retreat by the things that you learn from that retreat? Now, that does not mean that you go copy somebody retreat. That's not cool. This is just about market research and understanding what you like as a person and then taking that into your retreat space.

Shannon Jamail 00:04:26  So please understand the difference of that. But you should be attending retreats. The other thing is I highly recommend this, but it's not as important, although I might argue with myself on that. Go work retreats. Go work at a retreat. I have a work exchange program for almost all of my retreats. Lots of hosts offer work exchange type of positions, or there's retreat centers. Whatever it is, however you get in there, go work a retreat. And when you do ask how you can really help behind the scenes as well. I have hosted or I have helped a few retreat leaders that at the end of hosting their own retreat, they're like, this is not for me. This was so much more work than I thought it would be. I was physically and emotionally drained. I do not have the capacity capacity for it or the like for it, whatever. And so they spent a lot of time and money and energy building up this retreat brand, hosting their first retreat, and then realizing, I don't like this.

Shannon Jamail 00:05:26  No thank you. And so go work a retreat. If you do those few things, know exactly who you're going to serve, what you're going to serve, what the transformation is. You attend retreats and work retreats. You will know at the end of that if you are ready. Okay. At that point, if you still feel like, yes, this is what I want to do, then go for it. Question number two how far in advance should I start planning my retreat? This will vary by a couple of variables, I would say. And also, by the way, it varies by your demographic. It varies by your geographic. It varies by your community. As far as do you have an established community? There's so many variables. So I don't feel like there's a one size fits all, but ideally there's somewhere between the 9 to 12 month range. You could go as low as six months. I would not put together a retreat with less than six months. That's just me.

Shannon Jamail 00:06:22  There might be other people out there that will tell you differently, but I wouldn't do it with less than six months. And so the 9 to 12 really, again, it varies. Like for me, my international retreats, I actually plan them two years in advance. And that's for a number of reasons, a lot to do with me personally. And so my retreats that are in my home country, it's definitely 12 months. Part of that too, is I own a venue, and so just having to schedule in things appropriately, like it's just a whole thing, but I really start marketing somewhere between 6 to 9 months. That's when I'm marketing, and that's what I'm selling is between 6 to 9 months. Now, have I seen retreat leaders do it within 2 to 3 months? Yes I have. They're very much exceptions to the rule. Usually. Usually it's because they have a very big community. It's because they've done it before. It's because the community's begging for it. There's just those very active, engaged things that are happening that they are able to do that and and make it work successfully.

Shannon Jamail 00:07:29  Otherwise, again, 9 to 12 months, as little as six months, depending on where you're at and all of that type of thing. If you've answered question number one and you know you still want to do retreats, I would start building an interest list right then and there. Without even having your dates or anything, I would just start building your interest list. So that's just an FYI. Okay. Question number three how do I choose the right location or venue? So I've answered this in our podcast and I've blogged about it. And so there's different resources that you can find that I've already talked about this, but here's what I will say. You need to think about who your ideal guest is. That avatar we talked about like what's their vibe? What is approximately their budget? What's their travel comfort level like? For instance, for me, I thought about hosting a retreat in Greece. But when I realized for me personally, coming from Austin, Texas, how long it was going to take me to get there and how many planes and boats and shuttles I had to get on, I was like, that's just not for me.

Shannon Jamail 00:08:30  And it's it's just an incredible location. By the way, there is no knocking that Greece is an incredible location to host, but I'm not interested in going through that much travel to get there. And so it's probably never going to be on my list. Thinking about your ideal guest, what do they prefer? What amenities are important to your ideal guest. For instance, I had somebody actually contact me or contact the ranch a couple of days ago who I know personally. And she was like, you know, is this a good space for a luxury grieving retreat for women? And my answer is probably not retreat ranch. I listen, I'm biased. Retreat ranch is badass, okay. And the people who have come through here will tell you how badass it is. But I would not at all consider us a luxury venue. We are rustic chic luxury. I mean, we have incredible mattresses, we have bamboo sheets, we have curated products like there's lots of things and amenities and pieces that would be considered luxury.

Shannon Jamail 00:09:28  But as a whole, our facility and our our, our retreat center is not a luxury retreat center. And so just knowing what your ideal guest needs and wants and that it matches you as well, right? Is it matching your needs? Because usually your ideal guest, your avatar, is you, but maybe a few steps behind, right? You've got tools, you've got transformation for them, you've got knowledge for them, but they're somewhat aligned with you. So what do you like? What's important to you? Is it important for it to be nature based? Is it important to have conference rooms like all of that stuff's important, I would say avoid choosing solely on price or aesthetics. You're looking for function support, vibe alignment. Okay. And so really think about what kind of support you would need as a host, especially if you're first time host. And does that facility provide that? Most rental facilities do not unless they are a retreat center. And so just keep that in mind, okay.

Shannon Jamail 00:10:26  When you're looking for venue, hey retreat leaders, listen up. If you've been struggling to price your retreats, fill your retreats, or even start your retreat business, this is your moment. I'm hosting a one day High Impact workshop in London on October 10th. Designed to help you plan price, market and profit from transformational retreat Whether you're just starting out or scaling to your next level. This room is where your clarity begins, and you want to be in rooms that actually level up your business. By the way, it's a total business write up. What better way to visit London and write it off for business? Grab your spot now at Retreat Pro Workshop or click the links in the show notes. I'll see you in London. Next question. What's the right price to charge for my retreat and how do I justify it? I get this all the time, so I really get it. Especially at our venue, new hosts will say, what should I charge for this? And my answer is always, that's up to you.

Shannon Jamail 00:11:27  And here's why. I have had hosts come in my ranch and charge $10,000 per person for a three night stay. That includes specific things, and I have heard hosts come to the ranch and host a three night retreat and charge less than $1,000 per person. Let that sink in for a minute. And by the way, both were sold out. So it really, really depends. What are you promising? What is the transformation? My $10,000 a person, retreat host is very niched, very specific, very exclusive. It is. I mean, it's it's a very specific demographic. Okay, so the more niched you get and the more specific you get and the more tools you're providing, the more that has value to it. Okay. So it just depends. You do not though, price it based on how much the venue cost, the food cost, the instructor's cost. Like that's all. Yes, yes. As my friend Aaron Hague would say that, you know, reverse engineering price pricing based on like your desired profit, expenses, value, etc. it's using math, right? But you don't just use math to add up those primary things, you've got to add in your profit.

Shannon Jamail 00:12:49  And what your profit is, is so much more than the time you spend at retreat. It's so much bigger than that. It is your experience, your education, like everything that makes you who you are. Okay, so yes, use math, venue, food, all the expenses. And listen y'all, there's so many more expenses than venue food and goodie bags and like, there's so much to it. Are you adding your Canva cost? Are you adding credit card fees? Are you adding any, marketing, your own travel fees, gas, parking, whatever it is like? There's so much more to it. So make sure you have a budget sheet, but use math. Add in your profit. Also, add in what you would pay yourself at a retreat that's part of the payroll. So you're kind of getting paid twice, but really not. So you're getting paid payroll for working the retreat, just like you would pay some other person who's like in charge, like a manager, Right? Then you're also building in the profit.

Shannon Jamail 00:13:47  The profit is what goes back into the business typically. Right. I love this. This is definitely straight from my friend Aaron Haig. I've never described it like this before, but it's described perfectly that way. And so there's so much that gets put into that price of the retreat. You really have to sit down, do the math, put it on a spreadsheet, map it out. Exactly. And then the numbers don't lie. And then you get an idea of what you should charge at that point. And here's what I also say. We get a lot of retreat leaders who are like, well, when they're sharing a bed, shouldn't it be half cost? No it shouldn't. Could there be a small discount because they share a bed? Yes. But all the other costs are the same per person, right? And so don't get confused in that. But here's at the end of the day what really needs to happen. You price with confidence. You need to be so confident in what you're offering and the transformation you're promising and the experience you're promising that you feel good when you say, my retreat is $6000 or $2000 or $20,000, like whatever it is, you need to feel so good.

Shannon Jamail 00:14:53  And if it doesn't excite you at that rate that you have, then it's too low. It's too low. It needs to excite you. You need to be like, yes, I am so excited to do this retreat. I'm so excited to serve the people that show up here. I cannot wait to take them through this experience and this transformation, because profit and money has an energetic exchange too. So you need to be excited. Hopefully that helps a little bit. All right, next question. How do I market my retreat without sounding salesy my husband would say sales is a noble job, damn it. And it is. There's you know, there's just such a stigma around sales. But here's the truth. If you're not selling, you are not going to get the maximum return in your business. You cannot rely on marketing alone. By the way, there are two different things, Okay. You need to be selling. Marketing is attracting. Selling is closing. Okay? When it comes to selling, you sell with a story.

Shannon Jamail 00:15:52  The value, the transformation. Not three nights in a luxury hotel. Yoga every day. Chef prepared meals. That's not it, y'all. That's not it. What's the story? What's the value? What's the transformation? And you use a combination of social proof, behind the scenes, all that stuff. But here's the real thing. You need to ask for the sell. I know, but let's let's imagine you've put together this incredible experience and a client that you've worked with in some other capacity, maybe coaching or something, somebody that, you know, you know, if they went on this retreat, it would change their life. Like you feel that. Call them, send them a video message, send them a voice memo and say, hey, Shannon, I just created this retreat that I'm so excited about and you came to mind and I think you would get so much value out of it. Can I share some details or set up a call to talk to you about it that's selling. You send out a newsletter.

Shannon Jamail 00:16:49  People click on the link to find out information about your retreat. You reach out to each person that clicked on the link that's selling. So if you're not selling and you're only marketing, you are missing a ton of opportunity. I'll just leave it at that. Okay. Next one. How do I make sure my retreat actually makes a profit? I think we covered a lot of this already, but I think what I can say to this is budget meticulously. Budget meticulously. You would be shocked at the expenses that come up that you weren't prepared for, because not only should you budget meticulously, but you also want to add a cushion. On top of that, one of the members in my Retreat leader membership program was asking the other day about what they should do with food costs because the retreat is in a year from now, but the prices that they're getting today may not be the exact food cost. Right? And I'm like, you're right, there should be a cushion. The only thing that's completely locked in it should be completely locked in is your venue, because that's contracted.

Shannon Jamail 00:17:54  Now, if you've contracted with a chef and they have put their own cushion into their prices because food, let's just be honest, food has been skyrocketing all over the place. Then you have a contracted price in there, but usually in a chefs contract it will have some wiggle room because the cost of goods could change. So budget, budget and then add a cushion. That's super important. The other thing that you can do and consider is what are you going to sale sell at your retreat? Like how are you going to continue this work that you're doing and how can you bring it into your business? Are you going to offer a coaching program, a mastermind program? Are you going to offer products themselves. Like what could you offer on your retreat that continues this relationship? are you ready to sell your next retreat on this retreat? Let me tell you something. When we are there at the retreat, like, okay, an example, this conference that I just left, I'm like, how can I sign up for the next one right now? Like, I want to sign up for the next one right now.

Shannon Jamail 00:19:04  So when they are there at your retreat, feeling these amazing vibes, there's so just transformed. Ideally, that's when you can offer them how to continue the relationship and add more profit into your business as well. It is a double serving stone your because yes, you are building more profit. You're building more business by offering this and it's not dirty and it's not yucky because they are also going to get something incredible out of it. So sell on your retreats. Hey, guys, I'm cutting in real quick to ask a favor, will you please share this show with someone who you think could benefit from it? That really helps us to get amazing guests on the show. Also, if you haven't already, subscribe and leave us a review, please! It really helps us to continue to grow for you.

Shannon Jamail 00:20:00  Okay, next question. What contracts or legal protections do I need in place? So this I definitely have at least two podcasts that have been recorded about this. I'm not going to spend much time on this.

Shannon Jamail 00:20:11  you at the end of the day, you have to have clear agreements with your venue and any contractors that you work with. You have to have participant waivers, you have to have cancellation policies. You have to have terms of service. You have to have insurance. So these are just the basics okay. And there's so much more detail of those things in some other podcasts as well as my blog. Okay. Next question. What happens if I don't sell enough spots? Do I cancel pivot. Push harder. Ooh, this is yummy. So here's what I will offer. Aaron Haig has a great course out there. And, yes, me and Aaron, I just adore her and the work that she does, which is why I talk about her and her products and her services, because I believe in them. And so she has a retreat resuscitation masterclass, I believe. So go look that up or I will have it linked in the show notes. It is awesome. but the first thing I will tell you is don't panic.

Shannon Jamail 00:21:05  Assess your timing. Are you too early or are you too quiet? Here's something that I see all the time. All the time. I actually just experienced a retreat host who has a very big social following, and really just assumed that her social following would fail her retreat, and she canceled on us at the venue because it didn't fill. And when I look back, I think in A34 month period, She mentioned it three times. And and and on top of that, we gave leads to her because we get leads through our website all the time. And we would find out from the leads that she wouldn't call them for 3 or 4 days, and we'd have to remind her to call them. So are you too quiet? Are you visible enough? Are you working on your retreat every single day with excitement, with confidence, so that that is felt through everything that you do. So I'm just going to leave it at that, because I feel like you have to answer those questions before you make any other decisions.

Shannon Jamail 00:22:11  You can't make a decision to cancel or pivot or whatever if you're not even showing up and being consistent. I can tell you this I've not seen yet a host who shows up daily with joy and excitement about their retreat and not get the response or the sign ups that they wanted. I haven't. Not. Not ever. So that's what you really need to ask yourself. okay, next question. How can I stand out in a saturated retreat market? Ooh, yes. So you all know how I've been doing this for almost 15 years. I joke around with some of the OGs that when I was doing it, I literally could spend like $50 on Facebook because that's all there was, was Facebook, and there was a couple of platforms, book retreats and book yoga retreats that were at that time worked really great. And I was like, bam, bam, bam, easy. It's not like that today. Okay. there are a lot more hosts out there, and I'm glad of that. And I want you to be successful.

Shannon Jamail 00:23:13  That's why I do a podcast for free is to help retreat leaders be successful. But now, especially more than ever, you have to stand out by being specific. You have to niche down. You have to know exactly who you're going to serve in a very specific niche. You cannot. You cannot just put out a women's wellness retreat. Not unless you're only selling to your community and your studio, or your people only. And then they're going for you're engaged and they're going to sign up. Fine. But then you probably wouldn't be listening to this. You wouldn't have any issues. You know, building a retreat, you're just focusing on your community and serving your community only, and you're done. But if you're wanting to fill your retreat with, sure, your community, but outside your community as well and in general have a sustainable, long lasting business. You have to be specific. You have to be super niched. And I mean as specific as you can. Right? And then the other thing is getting visible, which I just talked about in the previous answer.

Shannon Jamail 00:24:22  You have to be visible every single day. And listen, I just wrote a blog about this. Do not do not this. Listen, I'll get mad right now and I will cuss. And I'm trying not to. But do not tell me you don't have time because I call bullshit. Look at your phone and look at your screen time on there. How often or how much screen time usage you were on your phone. And then tell me you don't have time. Bullshit. You have time to show up every day. It takes 15 20 minutes to show up every day and market and sell every day. So you need to be specific and you need to get visible and be consistent. Okay. Very passionate about this you guys. All right. Next one. Should I co-lead with someone or go solo? Okay, so I have like mixed thoughts on this, especially because I, I've, I've done both. Obviously I don't co-host anymore, really. But, so let's just talk about it. Co-hosts and co-leads can be amazing.

Shannon Jamail 00:25:26  Or they could be a disaster. Just being honest. You really need to pick someone who complements compliments your energy and your audience. And I can't stress this enough. You have to have super clear roles, responsibilities, income, splits, everything. how it would end if it had to end. Like all everything you can think of in writing. And honestly, you need to have a lawyer write it up. And this means even if it's your best friend, I cannot tell you how important this is. I cannot tell you and in my opinion, only really co-lead with someone if you feel like it enhances the experience for guests and simplifies things for you. If it doesn't do those two things both. Do it on your own. That's just. I'm just going to leave it at that. And my members, they know all the ins and outs and and you get lots and lots of support in that area. But they can be amazing or they can be disastrous. And you really have to put some things in place to make it work.

Shannon Jamail 00:26:23  Right. So okay, how do I handle unexpected issues on retreat like weather, illness, etc. without losing my mind? So, plan for B and then C and D. You always want to have a contingency plan in place, especially when it comes to activities. If they're outdoor activities, I don't even care where you are. You still have to plan for a plan B when it comes to those types of things. But here's the real thing. The first thing is to stay calm. Like whatever's happening. Stay calm. I have had guests fight with each other. I've had a guest pull a knife on my chef. I have had, guest get way, way intoxicated that we've had to physically move them. I had a guest, actually, a teacher, get arrested for a DUI and disappeared from the ranch. I have had so many things. I have had someone have a complete anxiety attack after they did a cold plunge. I have had all kinds of things happen on retreats. They are going to happen.

Shannon Jamail 00:27:28  They're going to happen. And you need to be calm, kind and and honest. Honest. Like you don't want to hide that something has happened. You don't want to hide. You know that something went wrong and you want to be super clear. Hey, guys, it's supposed to rain tomorrow. We were supposed to have this incredible outdoor activity, but we're going to pivot. Just kind of like in life and life. We plan for one thing and something else happens. So this is a great time to practice. How do we pivot. And so being calm kind honest and and try your best to plan for all these different things. If someone gets sick on your retreat what are your resources? Where's the nearest urgent care? Where's the nearest hospital? Is there a doctor that can come to the site? Just plan try to walk through all the different things that could go wrong. You won't walk through all of them. Nobody walks through when a guest pulls a knife on your chef like you just.

Shannon Jamail 00:28:23  You can't walk through all of them. you do the best you can, staying calm and kind, and you learn from it because that's really what happens and you get stronger from it. So there you go. Okay. Last one. How do I keep the momentum going after the retreat ends? This is awesome. This is great. Some of it is what I've already offered, where you could sell some continuing programs at your retreat, which I think is just absolutely fabulous, right? But the other thing is like following up with photos and reflections, integration prompts, offering those next steps. Like I talked about celebrating successes, gathering testimonials, start planning seats for your next retreat. Create a Facebook group for alumni. like just continuing the community feel with your group, I think is important. Some of the things that I do for my alumni is we have an alumni Facebook group, and I also send out birthday wishes to every single one of the guests that have been on my retreats. We have an alumni only retreat every couple of years.

Shannon Jamail 00:29:26  I'm constantly engaging in the Facebook group because I genuinely want to be engaged with the community, and so just finding ways to stay engaged with your community, how can you continue to serve them? What other programs and options do you have for them and retreats you might have in the future? So all right, guys, if this was helpful, please let me know. Also, would you please share the show either whether it's on YouTube or on your favorite podcast app? Will you share it with somebody else who you think might benefit from this? And if you haven't, please go. Leave us a review and subscribe. It really, really means the world to me. I so appreciate each and every one of you guys. Thanks so much. Thanks for tuning in to the Retreat Leader's podcast. If you love this episode, please make sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your retreat besties! Want more support? Grab free resources at the Retreat Leader's playbook. Until next time. Lee. Boldly serve deeply and retreat profitably.