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The Happy Hour Podcast, hosted by Shannon Jamail.

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EP 242 Ready, Set, Retreat: 12 Questions Every Retreat Leader Needs Answered

In this solo Q&A episode, Shannon Jamail tackles the 12 most frequently asked questions from aspiring and experienced retreat leaders alike.

From knowing when you’re truly ready to host a retreat, to choosing the right venue, pricing for profit, and marketing without sounding salesy, Shannon covers it all with no-fluff, straight-shooting advice.

Whether you're just starting out or looking to sharpen your strategy, these questions are the ones that come up in her DMs, workshops, and mastermind calls every single week.

With years of experience as a retreat host and venue owner, Shannon shares what works (and what to avoid) so you can build profitable, transformational retreats with confidence.

You’ll walk away with clarity, strategy, and a new level of confidence around your retreat business!

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Shannon Jamail 00:00:02 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast. The show for visionary coaches, healers, wellness pros and small business owners who aren't just here to host another feel good getaway, but to build a profitable, impactful retreat business. I'm your host, Shannon Jamail, retreat strategist, business mentor, and owner of a 46 acre retreat center. I've hosted over 100 retreats around the world, and I've made every mistake so you don't have to. Each week we'll dive into the mindset, marketing, money, business and mechanics behind sold out profitable retreats. Plus, hear from expert guests who are walking the talk. Whether you're planning your first retreat or scaling your 100th, you're in the right place. Welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Welcome to our welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. I am coming off of an Incredible three day conference that I cannot wait to tell you guys more about. I'm still processing, but it literally is going to change how I show up in what I do and just how I show up as a human.

Shannon Jamail 00:01:10 I'm that excited about it. But today, what we're going to talk about is the top 12 questions I get asked all the time, whether it's from podcast listeners or in my Facebook group or emails or messages like these are the top 12 questions that I get asked all the time. All right, let's dig in. First one, how do I know if I'm ready to lead a retreat? This is such a good question. And actually, if you're asking this question, you're on the right track, period. Because I think too many times people just jump in, they start planning things and making websites and all this stuff, and they have not done any of the work that's really required in order to start hosting retreats. And the first one is asking yourself, how do I know if I'm ready? And to me, there's a few things. The first one is do you have a clear purpose for the retreat? Not just a desire to travel or gather people, but like a clear purpose, a clear promise? What is the transformation? What is the guest going to experience and feel, and what's going to be different at the end of your retreat? Is it super clear? Are you super clear on who you're going to serve? Who is that guest? And I mean super clear.

Shannon Jamail 00:02:24 Like crystal clear. That guest has a name. It's a full avatar. It is. You know exactly who they are, where they live, how much money they make, if they're working out of the home, if they're working in the home, you know where they shop. You know what social platforms they're on. You know exactly who this person is that you are marketing to. So crystal clear on the promise, the transformation and crystal clear on who you are serving. And this isn't just I think I know and go for it. No, this is writing it down. Journaling it out. Getting really deep and nitty gritty in knowing who this person is and what the promises of the transformation is. I cannot emphasize this enough how important this is. So those are the first two things that are really important, because the confidence is going to come from the clarity. Like, truly, your confidence will come from the clarity of knowing exactly who you're going to serve and exactly how you're going to serve and how they're going to feel at the end of your retreat, the transformation that you're going to facilitate.

Shannon Jamail 00:03:25 So that's super important. Before you start hosting, before you even put together anything, there's two things I think you should do. Also the first one is attend retreats. If you've never attended a retreat, you have no business hosting a retreat. I'm just going to say it just like that. You have no business hosting retreats if you're not attending retreats. And when you do start hosting retreats, you should continue to attend retreats. You have to walk the talk. Okay. So attend retreats. You're going to learn so much on retreats. First of all, you're going to get whatever transformation they are promising ideally. But also you're going to learn. What did you love about it? What did you not like about it? How are you going to structure your retreat by the things that you learn from that retreat? Now, that does not mean that you go copy somebody retreat. That's not cool. This is just about market research and understanding what you like as a person and then taking that into your retreat space.

Shannon Jamail 00:04:26 So please understand the difference of that. But you should be attending retreats. The other thing is I highly recommend this, but it's not as important, although I might argue with myself on that. Go work retreats. Go work at a retreat. I have a work exchange program for almost all of my retreats. Lots of hosts offer work exchange type of positions, or there's retreat centers. Whatever it is, however you get in there, go work a retreat. And when you do ask how you can really help behind the scenes as well. I have hosted or I have helped a few retreat leaders that at the end of hosting their own retreat, they're like, this is not for me. This was so much more work than I thought it would be. I was physically and emotionally drained. I do not have the capacity capacity for it or the like for it, whatever. And so they spent a lot of time and money and energy building up this retreat brand, hosting their first retreat, and then realizing, I don't like this.

Shannon Jamail 00:05:26 No thank you. And so go work a retreat. If you do those few things, know exactly who you're going to serve, what you're going to serve, what the transformation is. You attend retreats and work retreats. You will know at the end of that if you are ready. Okay. At that point, if you still feel like, yes, this is what I want to do, then go for it. Question number two how far in advance should I start planning my retreat? This will vary by a couple of variables, I would say. And also, by the way, it varies by your demographic. It varies by your geographic. It varies by your community. As far as do you have an established community? There's so many variables. So I don't feel like there's a one size fits all, but ideally there's somewhere between the 9 to 12 month range. You could go as low as six months. I would not put together a retreat with less than six months. That's just me.

Shannon Jamail 00:06:22 There might be other people out there that will tell you differently, but I wouldn't do it with less than six months. And so the 9 to 12 really, again, it varies. Like for me, my international retreats, I actually plan them two years in advance. And that's for a number of reasons, a lot to do with me personally. And so my retreats that are in my home country, it's definitely 12 months. Part of that too, is I own a venue, and so just having to schedule in things appropriately, like it's just a whole thing, but I really start marketing somewhere between 6 to 9 months. That's when I'm marketing, and that's what I'm selling is between 6 to 9 months. Now, have I seen retreat leaders do it within 2 to 3 months? Yes I have. They're very much exceptions to the rule. Usually. Usually it's because they have a very big community. It's because they've done it before. It's because the community's begging for it. There's just those very active, engaged things that are happening that they are able to do that and and make it work successfully.

Shannon Jamail 00:07:29 Otherwise, again, 9 to 12 months, as little as six months, depending on where you're at and all of that type of thing. If you've answered question number one and you know you still want to do retreats, I would start building an interest list right then and there. Without even having your dates or anything, I would just start building your interest list. So that's just an FYI. Okay. Question number three how do I choose the right location or venue? So I've answered this in our podcast and I've blogged about it. And so there's different resources that you can find that I've already talked about this, but here's what I will say. You need to think about who your ideal guest is. That avatar we talked about like what's their vibe? What is approximately their budget? What's their travel comfort level like? For instance, for me, I thought about hosting a retreat in Greece. But when I realized for me personally, coming from Austin, Texas, how long it was going to take me to get there and how many planes and boats and shuttles I had to get on, I was like, that's just not for me.

Shannon Jamail 00:08:30 And it's it's just an incredible location. By the way, there is no knocking that Greece is an incredible location to host, but I'm not interested in going through that much travel to get there. And so it's probably never going to be on my list. Thinking about your ideal guest, what do they prefer? What amenities are important to your ideal guest. For instance, I had somebody actually contact me or contact the ranch a couple of days ago who I know personally. And she was like, you know, is this a good space for a luxury grieving retreat for women? And my answer is probably not retreat ranch. I listen, I'm biased. Retreat ranch is badass, okay. And the people who have come through here will tell you how badass it is. But I would not at all consider us a luxury venue. We are rustic chic luxury. I mean, we have incredible mattresses, we have bamboo sheets, we have curated products like there's lots of things and amenities and pieces that would be considered luxury.

Shannon Jamail 00:09:28 But as a whole, our facility and our our, our retreat center is not a luxury retreat center. And so just knowing what your ideal guest needs and wants and that it matches you as well, right? Is it matching your needs? Because usually your ideal guest, your avatar, is you, but maybe a few steps behind, right? You've got tools, you've got transformation for them, you've got knowledge for them, but they're somewhat aligned with you. So what do you like? What's important to you? Is it important for it to be nature based? Is it important to have conference rooms like all of that stuff's important, I would say avoid choosing solely on price or aesthetics. You're looking for function support, vibe alignment. Okay. And so really think about what kind of support you would need as a host, especially if you're first time host. And does that facility provide that? Most rental facilities do not unless they are a retreat center. And so just keep that in mind, okay.

Shannon Jamail 00:10:26 When you're looking for venue, hey retreat leaders, listen up. If you've been struggling to price your retreats, fill your retreats, or even start your retreat business, this is your moment. I'm hosting a one day High Impact workshop in London on October 10th. Designed to help you plan price, market and profit from transformational retreat Whether you're just starting out or scaling to your next level. This room is where your clarity begins, and you want to be in rooms that actually level up your business. By the way, it's a total business write up. What better way to visit London and write it off for business? Grab your spot now at Retreat Pro Workshop or click the links in the show notes. I'll see you in London. Next question. What's the right price to charge for my retreat and how do I justify it? I get this all the time, so I really get it. Especially at our venue, new hosts will say, what should I charge for this? And my answer is always, that's up to you.

Shannon Jamail 00:11:27 And here's why. I have had hosts come in my ranch and charge $10,000 per person for a three night stay. That includes specific things, and I have heard hosts come to the ranch and host a three night retreat and charge less than $1,000 per person. Let that sink in for a minute. And by the way, both were sold out. So it really, really depends. What are you promising? What is the transformation? My $10,000 a person, retreat host is very niched, very specific, very exclusive. It is. I mean, it's it's a very specific demographic. Okay, so the more niched you get and the more specific you get and the more tools you're providing, the more that has value to it. Okay. So it just depends. You do not though, price it based on how much the venue cost, the food cost, the instructor's cost. Like that's all. Yes, yes. As my friend Aaron Hague would say that, you know, reverse engineering price pricing based on like your desired profit, expenses, value, etc. it's using math, right? But you don't just use math to add up those primary things, you've got to add in your profit.

Shannon Jamail 00:12:49 And what your profit is, is so much more than the time you spend at retreat. It's so much bigger than that. It is your experience, your education, like everything that makes you who you are. Okay, so yes, use math, venue, food, all the expenses. And listen y'all, there's so many more expenses than venue food and goodie bags and like, there's so much to it. Are you adding your Canva cost? Are you adding credit card fees? Are you adding any, marketing, your own travel fees, gas, parking, whatever it is like? There's so much more to it. So make sure you have a budget sheet, but use math. Add in your profit. Also, add in what you would pay yourself at a retreat that's part of the payroll. So you're kind of getting paid twice, but really not. So you're getting paid payroll for working the retreat, just like you would pay some other person who's like in charge, like a manager, Right? Then you're also building in the profit.

Shannon Jamail 00:13:47 The profit is what goes back into the business typically. Right. I love this. This is definitely straight from my friend Aaron Haig. I've never described it like this before, but it's described perfectly that way. And so there's so much that gets put into that price of the retreat. You really have to sit down, do the math, put it on a spreadsheet, map it out. Exactly. And then the numbers don't lie. And then you get an idea of what you should charge at that point. And here's what I also say. We get a lot of retreat leaders who are like, well, when they're sharing a bed, shouldn't it be half cost? No it shouldn't. Could there be a small discount because they share a bed? Yes. But all the other costs are the same per person, right? And so don't get confused in that. But here's at the end of the day what really needs to happen. You price with confidence. You need to be so confident in what you're offering and the transformation you're promising and the experience you're promising that you feel good when you say, my retreat is $6000 or $2000 or $20,000, like whatever it is, you need to feel so good.

Shannon Jamail 00:14:53 And if it doesn't excite you at that rate that you have, then it's too low. It's too low. It needs to excite you. You need to be like, yes, I am so excited to do this retreat. I'm so excited to serve the people that show up here. I cannot wait to take them through this experience and this transformation, because profit and money has an energetic exchange too. So you need to be excited. Hopefully that helps a little bit. All right, next question. How do I market my retreat without sounding salesy my husband would say sales is a noble job, damn it. And it is. There's you know, there's just such a stigma around sales. But here's the truth. If you're not selling, you are not going to get the maximum return in your business. You cannot rely on marketing alone. By the way, there are two different things, Okay. You need to be selling. Marketing is attracting. Selling is closing. Okay? When it comes to selling, you sell with a story.

Shannon Jamail 00:15:52 The value, the transformation. Not three nights in a luxury hotel. Yoga every day. Chef prepared meals. That's not it, y'all. That's not it. What's the story? What's the value? What's the transformation? And you use a combination of social proof, behind the scenes, all that stuff. But here's the real thing. You need to ask for the sell. I know, but let's let's imagine you've put together this incredible experience and a client that you've worked with in some other capacity, maybe coaching or something, somebody that, you know, you know, if they went on this retreat, it would change their life. Like you feel that. Call them, send them a video message, send them a voice memo and say, hey, Shannon, I just created this retreat that I'm so excited about and you came to mind and I think you would get so much value out of it. Can I share some details or set up a call to talk to you about it that's selling. You send out a newsletter.

Shannon Jamail 00:16:49 People click on the link to find out information about your retreat. You reach out to each person that clicked on the link that's selling. So if you're not selling and you're only marketing, you are missing a ton of opportunity. I'll just leave it at that. Okay. Next one. How do I make sure my retreat actually makes a profit? I think we covered a lot of this already, but I think what I can say to this is budget meticulously. Budget meticulously. You would be shocked at the expenses that come up that you weren't prepared for, because not only should you budget meticulously, but you also want to add a cushion. On top of that, one of the members in my Retreat leader membership program was asking the other day about what they should do with food costs because the retreat is in a year from now, but the prices that they're getting today may not be the exact food cost. Right? And I'm like, you're right, there should be a cushion. The only thing that's completely locked in it should be completely locked in is your venue, because that's contracted.

Shannon Jamail 00:17:54 Now, if you've contracted with a chef and they have put their own cushion into their prices because food, let's just be honest, food has been skyrocketing all over the place. Then you have a contracted price in there, but usually in a chefs contract it will have some wiggle room because the cost of goods could change. So budget, budget and then add a cushion. That's super important. The other thing that you can do and consider is what are you going to sale sell at your retreat? Like how are you going to continue this work that you're doing and how can you bring it into your business? Are you going to offer a coaching program, a mastermind program? Are you going to offer products themselves. Like what could you offer on your retreat that continues this relationship? are you ready to sell your next retreat on this retreat? Let me tell you something. When we are there at the retreat, like, okay, an example, this conference that I just left, I'm like, how can I sign up for the next one right now? Like, I want to sign up for the next one right now.

Shannon Jamail 00:19:04 So when they are there at your retreat, feeling these amazing vibes, there's so just transformed. Ideally, that's when you can offer them how to continue the relationship and add more profit into your business as well. It is a double serving stone your because yes, you are building more profit. You're building more business by offering this and it's not dirty and it's not yucky because they are also going to get something incredible out of it. So sell on your retreats. Hey, guys, I'm cutting in real quick to ask a favor, will you please share this show with someone who you think could benefit from it? That really helps us to get amazing guests on the show. Also, if you haven't already, subscribe and leave us a review, please! It really helps us to continue to grow for you.

Shannon Jamail 00:20:00 Okay, next question. What contracts or legal protections do I need in place? So this I definitely have at least two podcasts that have been recorded about this. I'm not going to spend much time on this.

Shannon Jamail 00:20:11 you at the end of the day, you have to have clear agreements with your venue and any contractors that you work with. You have to have participant waivers, you have to have cancellation policies. You have to have terms of service. You have to have insurance. So these are just the basics okay. And there's so much more detail of those things in some other podcasts as well as my blog. Okay. Next question. What happens if I don't sell enough spots? Do I cancel pivot. Push harder. Ooh, this is yummy. So here's what I will offer. Aaron Haig has a great course out there. And, yes, me and Aaron, I just adore her and the work that she does, which is why I talk about her and her products and her services, because I believe in them. And so she has a retreat resuscitation masterclass, I believe. So go look that up or I will have it linked in the show notes. It is awesome. but the first thing I will tell you is don't panic.

Shannon Jamail 00:21:05 Assess your timing. Are you too early or are you too quiet? Here's something that I see all the time. All the time. I actually just experienced a retreat host who has a very big social following, and really just assumed that her social following would fail her retreat, and she canceled on us at the venue because it didn't fill. And when I look back, I think in A34 month period, She mentioned it three times. And and and on top of that, we gave leads to her because we get leads through our website all the time. And we would find out from the leads that she wouldn't call them for 3 or 4 days, and we'd have to remind her to call them. So are you too quiet? Are you visible enough? Are you working on your retreat every single day with excitement, with confidence, so that that is felt through everything that you do. So I'm just going to leave it at that, because I feel like you have to answer those questions before you make any other decisions.

Shannon Jamail 00:22:11 You can't make a decision to cancel or pivot or whatever if you're not even showing up and being consistent. I can tell you this I've not seen yet a host who shows up daily with joy and excitement about their retreat and not get the response or the sign ups that they wanted. I haven't. Not. Not ever. So that's what you really need to ask yourself. okay, next question. How can I stand out in a saturated retreat market? Ooh, yes. So you all know how I've been doing this for almost 15 years. I joke around with some of the OGs that when I was doing it, I literally could spend like $50 on Facebook because that's all there was, was Facebook, and there was a couple of platforms, book retreats and book yoga retreats that were at that time worked really great. And I was like, bam, bam, bam, easy. It's not like that today. Okay. there are a lot more hosts out there, and I'm glad of that. And I want you to be successful.

Shannon Jamail 00:23:13 That's why I do a podcast for free is to help retreat leaders be successful. But now, especially more than ever, you have to stand out by being specific. You have to niche down. You have to know exactly who you're going to serve in a very specific niche. You cannot. You cannot just put out a women's wellness retreat. Not unless you're only selling to your community and your studio, or your people only. And then they're going for you're engaged and they're going to sign up. Fine. But then you probably wouldn't be listening to this. You wouldn't have any issues. You know, building a retreat, you're just focusing on your community and serving your community only, and you're done. But if you're wanting to fill your retreat with, sure, your community, but outside your community as well and in general have a sustainable, long lasting business. You have to be specific. You have to be super niched. And I mean as specific as you can. Right? And then the other thing is getting visible, which I just talked about in the previous answer.

Shannon Jamail 00:24:22 You have to be visible every single day. And listen, I just wrote a blog about this. Do not do not this. Listen, I'll get mad right now and I will cuss. And I'm trying not to. But do not tell me you don't have time because I call bullshit. Look at your phone and look at your screen time on there. How often or how much screen time usage you were on your phone. And then tell me you don't have time. Bullshit. You have time to show up every day. It takes 15 20 minutes to show up every day and market and sell every day. So you need to be specific and you need to get visible and be consistent. Okay. Very passionate about this you guys. All right. Next one. Should I co-lead with someone or go solo? Okay, so I have like mixed thoughts on this, especially because I, I've, I've done both. Obviously I don't co-host anymore, really. But, so let's just talk about it. Co-hosts and co-leads can be amazing.

Shannon Jamail 00:25:26 Or they could be a disaster. Just being honest. You really need to pick someone who complements compliments your energy and your audience. And I can't stress this enough. You have to have super clear roles, responsibilities, income, splits, everything. how it would end if it had to end. Like all everything you can think of in writing. And honestly, you need to have a lawyer write it up. And this means even if it's your best friend, I cannot tell you how important this is. I cannot tell you and in my opinion, only really co-lead with someone if you feel like it enhances the experience for guests and simplifies things for you. If it doesn't do those two things both. Do it on your own. That's just. I'm just going to leave it at that. And my members, they know all the ins and outs and and you get lots and lots of support in that area. But they can be amazing or they can be disastrous. And you really have to put some things in place to make it work.

Shannon Jamail 00:26:23 Right. So okay, how do I handle unexpected issues on retreat like weather, illness, etc. without losing my mind? So, plan for B and then C and D. You always want to have a contingency plan in place, especially when it comes to activities. If they're outdoor activities, I don't even care where you are. You still have to plan for a plan B when it comes to those types of things. But here's the real thing. The first thing is to stay calm. Like whatever's happening. Stay calm. I have had guests fight with each other. I've had a guest pull a knife on my chef. I have had, guest get way, way intoxicated that we've had to physically move them. I had a guest, actually, a teacher, get arrested for a DUI and disappeared from the ranch. I have had so many things. I have had someone have a complete anxiety attack after they did a cold plunge. I have had all kinds of things happen on retreats. They are going to happen.

Shannon Jamail 00:27:28 They're going to happen. And you need to be calm, kind and and honest. Honest. Like you don't want to hide that something has happened. You don't want to hide. You know that something went wrong and you want to be super clear. Hey, guys, it's supposed to rain tomorrow. We were supposed to have this incredible outdoor activity, but we're going to pivot. Just kind of like in life and life. We plan for one thing and something else happens. So this is a great time to practice. How do we pivot. And so being calm kind honest and and try your best to plan for all these different things. If someone gets sick on your retreat what are your resources? Where's the nearest urgent care? Where's the nearest hospital? Is there a doctor that can come to the site? Just plan try to walk through all the different things that could go wrong. You won't walk through all of them. Nobody walks through when a guest pulls a knife on your chef like you just.

Shannon Jamail 00:28:23 You can't walk through all of them. you do the best you can, staying calm and kind, and you learn from it because that's really what happens and you get stronger from it. So there you go. Okay. Last one. How do I keep the momentum going after the retreat ends? This is awesome. This is great. Some of it is what I've already offered, where you could sell some continuing programs at your retreat, which I think is just absolutely fabulous, right? But the other thing is like following up with photos and reflections, integration prompts, offering those next steps. Like I talked about celebrating successes, gathering testimonials, start planning seats for your next retreat. Create a Facebook group for alumni. like just continuing the community feel with your group, I think is important. Some of the things that I do for my alumni is we have an alumni Facebook group, and I also send out birthday wishes to every single one of the guests that have been on my retreats. We have an alumni only retreat every couple of years.

Shannon Jamail 00:29:26 I'm constantly engaging in the Facebook group because I genuinely want to be engaged with the community, and so just finding ways to stay engaged with your community, how can you continue to serve them? What other programs and options do you have for them and retreats you might have in the future? So all right, guys, if this was helpful, please let me know. Also, would you please share the show either whether it's on YouTube or on your favorite podcast app? Will you share it with somebody else who you think might benefit from this? And if you haven't, please go. Leave us a review and subscribe. It really, really means the world to me. I so appreciate each and every one of you guys. Thanks so much. Thanks for tuning in to the Retreat Leader's podcast. If you love this episode, please make sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your retreat besties! Want more support? Grab free resources at the Retreat Leader's playbook. Until next time. Lee. Boldly serve deeply and retreat profitably.

EP 241 Planning Purpose-Driven Retreats with Amity Cooper of 1890 & Wayfinding Ranch

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with Amity Cooper, a licensed mental health professional turned ranch retreat host in Colorado. Together, they dive into the world of nature-based retreats, horse-led healing, and the business foundation every retreat leader needs to succeed.

Amity shares her transition from private practice to owning and operating two stunning ranches—1890 Ranch and Wayfinding Ranch—spanning 80 acres. With a clear North Star guiding her work, Amity emphasizes that profitable, sustainable retreats start with purpose. They unpack what it means to align your retreat business with your life goals, why planning 12+ months out is crucial, and the behind-the-scenes systems needed to avoid burnout and cancellations.

Whether you're a venue owner or aspiring retreat host, this conversation is a must-listen for those wanting to build impactful and intentional retreats.

Connect with Amity: www.the1890ranch.com https://wayfindingranch.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

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Introduction & Guest Welcome (00:00:02)
Shannon introduces the podcast, herself, and welcomes guest Amity Cooper, highlighting their similarities as venue owners.

Amity’s Background & Ranch Story (00:01:46)
Amity shares her journey from mental health professional to ranch and venue owner, and her motivation for creating retreat spaces.

Is Hosting Retreats Right for You? (00:03:21)
Discussion on evaluating if hosting retreats aligns with your lifestyle, goals, and business vision.

Finding Your North Star & Why (00:04:18)
Importance of identifying your purpose and motivation before starting a retreat business.

Retreats as a Business, Not a Hobby (00:07:07)
Emphasizing that retreats are a serious business venture requiring a clear purpose and resilience through challenges.

Pitfalls of Poor Planning (00:08:30)
Warning against casually throwing together retreats without a clear plan or purpose.

Vision vs. Implementation: Roles & Systems (00:09:31)
Clarifying the need for systems, clear roles, and balancing vision with practical implementation.

The Importance of a Business Plan (00:10:15)
Stressing the necessity of a detailed business plan for each retreat, including logistics, budget, and marketing.

Venue Owner Perspective: Spotting Unprepared Hosts (00:11:35)
How venue owners can quickly identify hosts who lack planning and the importance of mutual fit.

Booking Timelines & Commitment (00:13:19)
Why venues require advance bookings and the risks of last-minute cancellations for both parties.

Preparation vs. Spontaneity in Retreat Planning (00:14:56)
Contrasting well-prepared hosts with those who approach retreats impulsively, and the consequences of each.

Recommended Planning Timeline (00:16:06)
Advice to start planning retreats at least a year in advance, with venue outreach 9-12 months before the event.

Marketing & Booking Windows (00:18:06)
Guidance on when to begin marketing and booking, emphasizing the need for early and thorough preparation.

Learning Before Leading: Work Exchanges & Attending Retreats (00:19:49)
Encouragement to gain experience by working or attending retreats before hosting your own.

Amity’s Ranch Offerings (00:21:06)
Amity describes her two ranch properties, their features, and the types of events they host.

Closing & Resources (00:23:59)
Shannon thanks Amity, recaps key takeaways, and shares where to find more resources and information.

[FIXED] EP 240 Running Retreats as a Couple: Behind the Scenes at Blisstopia Retreats with Mark and Lana Royce

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Mark and Lana from Blisstopia Retreats to talk about what it really takes to co-facilitate powerful retreats—and build a business together without losing your minds (or your marriage).

Mark and Lana share their journey from psychotherapy and martial arts to running over 60 retreats and living on-site at their stunning Arizona retreat villa. With over 7,000 sq ft of curated wellness space, they've built a business based on balance, service, and transformation.

You’ll hear:

Why co-leading retreats is a dance of trust, clarity, and communication
The pros and cons of living at your retreat property
What makes a retreat center host different from a vacation rental owner
Tips for thriving in a saturated retreat market
A special offer just for podcast listeners

Mention this episode and get $500 off a 3-day retreat rental at Blisstopia Retreats!

Whether you host retreats solo, with a team, or dream of running your own retreat center, this convo will give you a behind-the-scenes look at how to lead with heart and strategy.

Connect with Mark and Lana: https://www.blisstopiaretreats.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

------------------Timestamps:
Introduction (00:00:00) Overview of the podcast’s focus on retreat leadership, guest experiences, and marketing secrets.
Introducing the Guests: Mark & Loni (00:00:25) Host introduces Mark and Loni, a couple running a retreat business together.
Loni’s Background & Entrepreneurial Journey (00:01:48) Loni shares her psychotherapy, wellness, and entrepreneurial background, and how she met Mark.
Mark’s Background & Transition to Retreats (00:03:28) Mark discusses his martial arts and coaching background, and their shift to retreats after the pandemic.
Deciding to Open a Retreat Center (00:04:18) The couple describes the decision to sell everything and open a retreat center in Arizona.
Transition to Co-Facilitating Retreats (00:05:21) Discussion on how they began co-facilitating retreats and integrating their skills.
Why Retreats Over Other Wellness Businesses (00:05:56) Explaining the deeper impact of retreats compared to fitness or yoga classes.
Mark’s Growth & Their Yin-Yang Dynamic (00:06:57) Mark’s journey into yoga and breathwork, and the couple’s complementary energies.
Choosing & Setting Up Their Retreat Property (00:08:40) How they selected, purchased, and set up their Arizona retreat property.
Hosting Other Facilitators at Their Space (00:11:37) They welcome other retreat hosts and describe the support they provide.

On-Site Support & Services for Retreat Hosts (00:12:04) Details about their on-site help, meal services, and understanding retreat logistics.
Host’s London Event Promo (00:13:00) Brief promotion for the host’s upcoming retreat mastermind event in London.
Why Retreat Centers Are Preferred (00:13:41) Host explains the advantages of retreat centers over Airbnb/Vrbo for hosting retreats.
Challenges of Building & Planning as a Couple (00:14:55) Discussion about the challenges of planning and building a retreat space together.
Staying in Their Lanes & Defining Roles (00:15:19) How they maintain boundaries, respect, and trust by sticking to their strengths.
Industry Struggles & Oversaturation (00:17:06) Mark discusses industry oversaturation and the challenges of inexperienced hosts.
Struggles of Working as a Couple (00:19:03) The couple shares the realities of being together constantly and how they communicate.
Industry Growth & Differentiation (00:20:20) Host reflects on industry growth, competition, and the importance of differentiation.
Staying in Lanes: Host’s Personal Experience (00:24:29) Host shares her own experience working with her husband and the importance of defined roles.
Living On-Site: Pros & Cons (00:26:32) Discussion about the benefits and challenges of living at the retreat property.
Nature, Animals, and Sanctuary Vibes (00:27:10) Description of the property’s natural setting, animals, and peaceful atmosphere.
Being On-Site for Emergencies & Support (00:29:42) Anecdote about stepping in for a retreat host in need and the value of being on-site.
Host’s Perspective: Never Shutting Off (00:30:54) Host discusses the difficulty of separating work and home life when living on-site.

Mark’s Family Resort Experience (00:33:12) Mark relates his experience growing up around a family-run resort.
Constant Upkeep & Business Mindset (00:34:07) The ongoing nature of property maintenance and always being in business mode.
Special Offer for Listeners (00:35:20) Mark and Loni offer $500 off venue rental for podcast listeners.

EP 240 Running Retreats as a Couple: Behind the Scenes at Blisstopia Retreats with Mark and Lana Royce

You’ll hear:

Why co-leading retreats is a dance of trust, clarity, and communication
The pros and cons of living at your retreat property
What makes a retreat center host different from a vacation rental owner
Tips for thriving in a saturated retreat market
A special offer just for podcast listeners

Mention this episode and get $500 off a 3-day retreat rental at Blisstopia Retreats!

Whether you host retreats solo, with a team, or dream of running your own retreat center, this convo will give you a behind-the-scenes look at how to lead with heart and strategy.

Connect with Mark and Lana: https://www.blisstopiaretreats.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

----------------- Timestamps:

Introducing the Guests: Mark & Loni (00:00:25) Host introduces Mark and Loni, a couple running a retreat business together. Loni’s Background & Entrepreneurial Journey (00:01:48) Loni shares her psychotherapy, wellness, and entrepreneurial background, and how she met Mark.

Mark’s Background & Transition to Retreats (00:03:28) Mark discusses his martial arts and coaching background, and their shift to retreats after the pandemic. Deciding to Open a Retreat Center (00:04:18) The couple describes the decision to sell everything and open a retreat center in Arizona.

Transition to Co-Facilitating Retreats (00:05:21) Discussion on how they began co-facilitating retreats and integrating their skills.

Why Retreats Over Other Wellness Businesses (00:05:56) Explaining the deeper impact of retreats compared to fitness or yoga classes.

Mark’s Growth & Their Yin-Yang Dynamic (00:06:57) Mark’s journey into yoga and breathwork, and the couple’s complementary energies.

Choosing & Setting Up Their Retreat Property (00:08:40) How they selected, purchased, and set up their Arizona retreat property.

Hosting Other Facilitators at Their Space (00:11:37) They welcome other retreat hosts and describe the support they provide.

On-Site Support & Services for Retreat Hosts (00:12:04) Details about their on-site help, meal services, and understanding retreat logistics.

Host’s London Event Promo (00:13:00) Brief promotion for the host’s upcoming retreat mastermind event in London.

Why Retreat Centers Are Preferred (00:13:41) Host explains the advantages of retreat centers over Airbnb/Vrbo for hosting retreats.

Challenges of Building & Planning as a Couple (00:14:55) Discussion about the challenges of planning and building a retreat space together.

Staying in Their Lanes & Defining Roles (00:15:19) How they maintain boundaries, respect, and trust by sticking to their strengths.

Industry Struggles & Oversaturation (00:17:06) Mark discusses industry oversaturation and the challenges of inexperienced hosts.

Struggles of Working as a Couple (00:19:03) The couple shares the realities of being together constantly and how they communicate.

Industry Growth & Differentiation (00:20:20) Host reflects on industry growth, competition, and the importance of differentiation.

Staying in Lanes: Host’s Personal Experience (00:24:29) Host shares her own experience working with her husband and the importance of defined roles.

Living On-Site: Pros & Cons (00:26:32) Discussion about the benefits and challenges of living at the retreat property.

Nature, Animals, and Sanctuary Vibes (00:27:10) Description of the property’s natural setting, animals, and peaceful atmosphere.

Being On-Site for Emergencies & Support (00:29:42) Anecdote about stepping in for a retreat host in need and the value of being on-site.

Host’s Perspective: Never Shutting Off (00:30:54) Host discusses the difficulty of separating work and home life when living on-site.

Mark’s Family Resort Experience (00:33:12) Mark relates his experience growing up around a family-run resort.

Constant Upkeep & Business Mindset (00:34:07) The ongoing nature of property maintenance and always being in business mode.

Special Offer for Listeners (00:35:20) Mark and Loni offer $500 off venue rental for podcast listeners.

EP 239 Beyond the Logo: Branding That Sells Retreats with Kara Hollinger

Your brand is more than a logo—it's the energy, clarity, and trust that sells out your retreats before you even open registration.

In this episode, Shannon sits down with Kara Hollinger, founder and creative director of Made Outside, to explore how powerful branding and a cohesive online presence directly influence retreat success.

They dig into:

Why authenticity is your brand’s biggest asset
How storytelling builds trust and drives bookings
Common branding mistakes retreat leaders make
Aligning your website, social media, and messaging to serve your ideal client
How to communicate your value so people are ready to buy

Kara also shares a 20% discount on branding packages exclusively for podcast listeners—don’t

Connect with Kara: www.madeoutside.com
Talk about this podcast and get 20% off

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

----------

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. And today I've got an amazing guest on the show that I am so excited to dig into our topic today because I feel like if it wasn't already so very important, it's becoming more and more important every day in the business world that we live in. So welcome, Kara to the show.

Kara 00:00:46 Thank you for having me, Shannon. Excited to be here.

Shannon 00:00:49 I'm so excited you're here. So Kara Hollinger is on the show. And do you just want to take a moment to tell us, like, who you are? What brought you here? Like, talk to us about who you are.

Kara 00:00:59 Definitely. My background is in brand development and design as well as strategy, and I started Made outside. I'm the founder and we specialize in building brands with authenticity, transparency and trust so that the consumer will lean into that purpose and story and then choose you over another competitor. So in most cases, that level of authenticity and storytelling is what drives a consumer into the purchasing ability. And so through design and award winning design, I was able to actually take my intuition and my understanding of marketability and then design and merge that with design, which has been a really great outcome for our clients. And I'm a big supporter of wellness and retreats and leadership. And I think that combining brand purpose into, you know, whether it's a retreat or a leader or even a brand is the key to success in today's market, where it's very convoluted, it's hard to tell who's authentic or who isn't. And that's what we do for all of our clients. And we've had really great success.

Shannon 00:02:06 I love this. Okay, so I love this for so many reasons, but especially because just like you mentioned, like if you are not presenting yourself in an authentic but also appealing way specifically to your demographic, then you are missing the boat.

Shannon 00:02:24 And I know that a lot of things that you work on is brand strategy and social media presence, as well as website presence. And I think, I think it gets really underrated in the retreat world. I think people just put together a very, in my very humble opinion, a crappy landing page that has maybe a couple of pictures that do not look as good as they should look. and it's just, I mean, I see more and more of them and I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, there's an investment that has to be made in this business if you are wanting to it to be a business. And everybody knows that I'm big on like I, I don't do retreats for a hobby. I don't teach people how to do retreats for hobby. I teach you to do it as a business. And part of business in this world is investing in your social media and your website presence and brand strategy. Because I feel like it's got to tell a story. All of this has to tell a story.

Kara 00:03:16 Definitely. And the world of templated websites and put something up with, you know, Squarespace or Wix. Those types of solutions do exist, and they can be successful, but only if they're brought into authenticity and something that's unique for you. Because if we all land on something that feels the same or doesn't feel authentic or is just another batch of stock photos, it's going to be really hard to get somebody to invest their time and money to stop what they're doing, fly and try. They're seeking something to go to a retreat they're seeking. And if you can't collectively tell them what they're going to get in a way that feels safe and authentic, then they're going to start to look elsewhere, or they're going to start to overthink the decision and then possibly not juju at all. So getting to the heart of what makes you different and why you started the retreat, or why this solution is going to be good for the person coming. That is the key to all of it. And you can do that.

Kara 00:04:10 So simply with just words and visuals, it doesn't have to be a whole big investment. It's really about how you tell that story and then making sure it doesn't look like everyone else that you're seeing out there.

Shannon 00:04:22 I couldn't agree more. So I the way I do my retreat bookings is probably a little different than some people. As far as they don't have to talk to me, they don't have to set an appointment with me. They don't have to be pre-screened by me. I just don't run those types of retreats. There are a there's a time and place for that. But I share that with you because people who don't know me at all are literally. I mean, I'll get on my my registration forms. Where did you find me? Google. So they're finding me and they're booking because of my landing page, because of my messaging, because of my image, because of the story, because of how I'm marketing them. And so that's the bulk of my registrations, or pretty close to 6,570%.

Shannon 00:05:00 The other 25 to 30% is coming from referral or repeat guest. Or they've been listening to me and following me a long time, whatever. But the bulk of my my retreats are registrations are coming because of how my messaging is reaching them and the way that it's presented. And so when I tell you this is so important, I mean, this is so important. And even if you are someone, a host who, you know, you want to interview them first, they have to apply, they have to whatever. It's still the same thing. They're not even going to fill up that form to set an appointment with you if your messaging doesn't resonate, if it looks like, you know, a junior high schooler, put the whole thing together. You know what I mean? And I see this a lot in the retreat space where it's like, I don't know why my retreats not filling. I'm like, well, we're just going to start here. There's probably a whole lot of other stuff going on.

Shannon 00:05:50 But also we're going to start right here. And I love that you talked about trust and authenticity Because I think you and I both know we live in the world now, where if we hear about a company or an organization or anybody we're going to give our money to, where's the first place we look? Nowadays it's social media. You know what I mean? Yes, it's their website, but we usually are on their website, and then we go find them on social media to really validate who they are. What are your thoughts on that.

Kara 00:06:17 100% and the consistency between both stops, as well as how you email or solicit, has to be consistent and equally as professional. So somebody reached out to me recently and I thought it was very engaging. But then I went and found them on social and it was filled with stuff that was not authentic. It was really sloppy and done by I, and I immediately bounced. And so that originality is as important and the sales not going to come through just your site.

Kara 00:06:45 It is through learning and engaging as well as social hearing, trust building and the social aspect has to reassure them that where they're coming, It's not just safe. Like, am I going to get hurt? But it's safe. Like I'm making the right investment. And is this what I'm looking for? Because when people are out there seeking these types of scenarios, they're actually looking to either feel better, find vision, reset, meet people. a lot of it's around feeling better, but it could be a series of just letting go. It could be. But if you don't show up and understand what you signed up for, or if what you see online is actually authentic to the experience you're going to get when you show up, it's that validation on social that actually confirms a sale. So 100%, and just so everybody knows, a brand is not a logo. A brand is how you show up as a company or as a person in every aspect the photography, your voice, your social, how you, send them the materials to get ready for the retreat, to how you answer the phone.

Kara 00:07:53 It's all important. And that brand as a whole needs to look and feel the same across all platforms. And if it doesn't, it doesn't have to be custom. With a big, huge website. It could be a simple website, but the visuals and the storytelling needs to be simple and consistent across all touchpoints.

Shannon 00:08:11 Oh, okay, now you're really talking my language because it's not just a one stop. It's not just the website, although that typically is. The starting point is sometimes it might be the social. That's the starting point, but they're quickly going to make their way to the website. They're going to make their way to both. Right. Period. It's 100%. So yeah. So there's multiple touch points. And then also the communication right away. Like if they make contact with you, what does that communication look like when they register. The whole process is part of your brand. And I'm so glad that you are clarifying that it's not a logo. I can't tell you how many times people get caught up in my in what my logo is.

Shannon 00:08:40 That's everything. Listen, it's a very small. Believe it or not, part of the picture, right?

Kara 00:08:45 It's like one pillar of your body, you know, it's like it's a small piece of the thing. And it's important that it resonates too. But people aren't going to hire you because of your logo. They're going to hire you because of how you feel. And if you have that element of attraction or law of attraction that bring you in, that is 100% aligned on every touchpoint. Because if it's really cool here, then they go somewhere else and they're getting a different experience. You automatically lost trust and that's why the consistency is key.

Shannon 00:09:14 Yeah I so agree. So I love this. So we're talking about that. Your website has a look and feel and verbiage and energy to it. So should your social media match. So should your emails show. So should all. Everything should match that look and feel and energy that you are trying to create. And I think sometimes we don't know what that even is or how it should look.

Shannon 00:09:37 Unless we work with someone like you or an organization that can help us see that. Because sometimes we just get caught up in the logo or, you know, whatever it is. And we're thinking, I'm going to just do this on Canva. I'm going to create a logo, pick a couple colors, and then I'm done.

Kara 00:09:53 Exactly. And I am a big believer in Canva and we use it. We personally don't use it. We set our clients up with Canva templates. Once we're done doing our job so that that consistency piece is key. And you have to think of it as, how you meet anybody. Like you're going to go and say, hi, my name is Karen. Wait outside. But that's not enough. Like, you need to speak of who you are and why you're different in order to get attention. And it's the same for your brand. So like, just because I people like my dress and I dress very simple today, but say that was a compliment. They're not going to hire me because of my dress, they're going to hire me because of the whole picture.

Kara 00:10:32 And that's why that logo is it's important that it doesn't, you know, it's legible, it's attractive. It doesn't feel dated, it doesn't feel too trendy. Like those are things that we need to look for for the logo. But that is like third of importance as to the whole picture. And that consistency and transparency is really reigning above the way the logo looks and what your color palette is. And I get asked a lot of times. Like we just see the logo on an updated color palette and I'm like, okay, but then you're going to need these things. And so we have to coach them on. When they put that new logo somewhere, it's not going to spike sales. It's not going to spike the call. What's going to spike that? Is that again I hear you I feel you I see you. That is the piece that is the component that you want to reach your consumers. And if you can figure out how to word that and how to make it feel like that through your brand, your sales will increase and you will get stickier.

Kara 00:11:27 And they not only will love it, but then they're going to come and they're going to get the experience. They expected it, and they're going to go home and tell the people, and then they're also going to share it on social. So that viral ness is important in that first step.

Shannon 00:11:39 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yes. Okay, so I love this because a lot of retreat leaders don't know how to word it.

Shannon 00:12:25 They don't. They don't know how to position it. They're like, well, here's here's they hopefully know who they can serve, right? Who their ideal guest is. Hopefully they know that and they know the problem that they can solve or solve for that person, but then they don't know where to go from there. And is that something that you and your group does that they can help?

Kara 00:12:42 Conditioning is is everything, to be honest. and we really want that to be stable and established and and Attractive before the visuals ever get involved. because that like, you need to think of not what you like, not your personal style and your personal preference. You need to think of what the person you're wanting to show up needs and what they need to see and feel. And again, you got to know the emotion. Every retreats different. Some are more fitness, some are more wellness, some are more mental health, some are more silent. You know, relaxation. But what are what is their pain point? And then the moment you can position yourself to build trust and authenticity around their pain point, that's the position is like what you do, how you do it and why you're different.

Kara 00:13:29 And then if you can say that in a way that's compelling and interesting and attractive, it's, it's a it's a home run, because then all of the visuals back that up. And so then that's why the logo is, is like a piece of it. It's all the messaging and all the little graphics and all the things that really instill and insinuate what it is that makes you different is how that brand look and feel. And consistency starts to build. Because if you just start creating pretty things, you're going to, again, blend in, because there's a lot of pretty things out there. But what you need to do is, is match that message with how it's going to feel. And then the visuals come into play. And I mean, I'm an award winning designer. So for years I thought design was everything. And then as I started to own my own businesses and help thousands of businesses, I realized the positioning and the strategy behind how you're going out and getting the business is the success component.

Kara 00:14:21 And then the visuals, I mean, it's it's really amazing once you have that positioning, right, how far the visuals take off and how easy it is, it's like there's no overthinking. You're just doing because you have a North Star that you're following, and then that North Star is solving the pain point and the problem of who you're trying to attract in.

Shannon 00:14:41 Yes, I really do believe I mean, I with all, every fiber of my being, I believe one of the biggest struggles for retreat leaders is this it's their marketing message. It's there. It's their brand. It's the look and feel of what they're trying to communicate. And. And I feel like they struggle the most with this. And this is where they get the most stuck. And they just put something together and then wonder why it's not working. And so please hear me when I say this for my listeners. Like, this is where you are stuck. I, I promise this is probably where you're stuck and you're thinking you're not getting sales because of your price, or you're thinking you're not getting sales because of the location or whatever.

Shannon 00:15:21 And it's probably 99.9% of the time. It's the branding, and the messaging is falling flat. It's not reaching who it's supposed to reach. It's not consistent. It's not vibrant. It's not the energy you're trying to create. You're not attracting the people you want to attract because it's just not hitting the mark. So I'm so glad you're talking about it.

Kara 00:15:40 Yeah, 100%. And again, you can go to Squarespace and build a website over a weekend. And and it could be very successful if you have the positioning and an authentic voice and really great visuals. It's not the methodology of how you do it. There's a lot of ways such as Canva, such as AI, to get there, but you have to start with that base of of being different. Like if you look like everyone else, there's nothing to sink your teeth into that makes you stand out. And especially when you start to advertise. Because if you start putting money into that and then you start soliciting people to land, that ad could be the best looking ad ever.

Kara 00:16:20 And it could say, but if they land on your website and then it doesn't feel like that, or you're not answering those questions, they're going to bounce and your bounce rate will be so high because they're going to land on something that doesn't feel safe, authentic, or, you know, matching their pain points. And so that that's why the the visuals kind of come in second or sometimes there.

Shannon 00:16:40 I really do think that you're exactly right. And do you have to hire a professional? Maybe not. But here's where I think the struggle is, is they they don't have the skill set if I'm being honest. They just don't like I have to. I have to partner with someone I don't. Just my skill set is what I deliver at the retreat and what I teach people to do. But when it comes to exact marketing branding strategy, I have to bring in someone else for my own stuff. I can see other people's better than my own stuff, right? It's that's what happens sometimes. and so working with a, an organization or a partner or somebody who knows how to do that, I think is really, really valuable, especially if, as a retreat leader, you're sitting here going, why am I not getting the sales? What is happening? And if you're truly consistently showing up but you're not getting the the traction you think it is almost most likely to do with your branding and your messaging.

Shannon 00:17:33 It's just falling flat.

Kara 00:17:35 100% I agree. And we help people. And one of the things that makes us uniquely different is we will work with what's working and help you with the roadblocks that aren't or the gaps. So it's not like you have to come to us and we have to do it all or we won't work with you. We actually look at what's working and what brand equity you have, and in some cases, there's a lot that's working and we can kind of just come in and we don't Band-Aid. We actually solve it and we look at the problems and then we look out also not where are you now? Where are you going? So everything we're building and creating is actually giving you legs to get to where your ultimate vision is so that you don't have to redo this like the goal of branding. And most of our clients are in ten plus years. Not only are they still coming back to help them grow, but they're not coming back to rebrand. And that is because the level of who they are and what they do is so clear and it's timeless.

Kara 00:18:30 It doesn't feel trendy or attached to something that's popular today. It actually feels, you know, something that could have been five years ago, 20 years from now. It just feels safe and seen. And that is another key to this whole thing, is to stay far away from very heavy trends, because it will make you go through this process again and again.

Shannon 00:18:52 Yes, yes. Gosh, I so agree with that. Well, Miss Kara, if somebody wanted to work with you, do you have something special for them? I think you mentioned.

Kara 00:19:01 I did earlier. You're offering 20% to anybody that finds us through this podcast. We have lots of packages everywhere, from positioning to visuals to positioning, visuals and a website. We can do them in an intensive process as quick as a week or two, or we can spread it out and do a larger scale project that can take a couple of months. But we understand that these types of projects are kind of hot and they're ready to go. So we have figured out ways for us to build packages specific to retreats and wellness groups.

Kara 00:19:33 That can happen as fast as you guys need us to. And we do that hands on one on one. And we have a really specific staff that helps and handles these types of clients. And I am the creative director, founder leader of made and you will work with me individually, and then my staff helps execute all the way to the end. And I am with the project from the beginning to the end. So that's another thing that differentiates us. And we are offering 20% off of any package. If you find us through this podcast.

Shannon 00:20:03 Awesome! Well, her website is made outside, but it will also be in the show notes, so I highly, highly recommend that you take her up on this offer because more than likely, if you are not hitting where you are wanting to hit, it has something to do with your branding, marketing strategy and your messaging and where it's falling flat. So Kara, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.

Kara 00:20:27 Absolutely, Shannon, thank you for having me.

Kara 00:20:29 And I look forward to helping all of your guests.

Shannon 00:20:33 Thanks for listening to the Retreat Leaders podcast. Learn more at the retreat. See you next time.

Outgrowing Clients & Owning Your Worth as a Retreat Leader with Raisah Bickram

In this empowering episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by retreat host and business coach Raisah Salima Bickram for a deeply honest conversation about evolution, alignment, and energetic pricing in the retreat world.

Together, they unpack what it means to outgrow clients, roles, and retreat formats—and how to move forward in integrity and confidence. Raisah shares her journey of raising her prices, honoring her worth, and navigating the guilt that can come with letting go of what no longer fits. Shannon and Raisah also dive into:

Pricing from a place of energy and impact (not fear)
Why fair pricing supports sustainability and transformation
Offering scholarships without compromising profitability
How to create aligned, soul-led retreats that evolve with you
Standing firm in your message—even when trends suggest otherwise

Whether you're a seasoned retreat leader or stepping into your first offering, this episode will inspire you to lead from a place of power, purpose, and authenticity

About Raisah: Raisah Salima Bickram is a Spiritual Mentor and Business Coach who activates visionary women into their highest leadership and timeline. She is the founder of The Mind, Body + Soul Experience (The MBSX) and has designed and led over 30 retreats worldwide- ranging from intimate day experiences to transformative weekend immersions and international journeys. Her work explores themes of identity, expansion, healing, and the embodiment of sovereign leadership—guiding women to become the CEOs of their own lives.

A certified somatic yoga teacher, sound healer, and Reiki Master, Raisah specializes in trauma-informed practices that create safe, sacred spaces for deep alchemy work. Her journey began in September 2020 with a pop-up backyard day retreat in Long Island, NY, where 18 attendees gathered. What started as a local gathering quickly evolved into a global movement.

Since then, Raisah has guided retreats across the Caribbean Sea to the Indian Ocean, cultivating a community of clients who are drawn to soul work, sacred play, and exploration. Through her retreats, mentorship, and coaching, she supports women in unlocking their gifts, stepping into aligned leadership, and coming home to their truest selves.

Today, Raisah continues to serve as a global retreat leader, business & mindset coach, and yoga teacher, weaving spirituality and strategy to empower women to rise into their fullest expression.

Connect with Raisah: http://Thembsx.com

Instagram: @mbsx_raisah

Special Offer: $200 off her Sedona retreat + free identity activation session for the first 3 bookings

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

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Timestamps by PodSqueeze:

Guest Introduction: Raisa (00:01:34)
Raisa introduces herself, her work as a business coach, spiritual mentor, and retreat leader.

Defining Outgrowing Clients, Spaces, and Seasons (00:02:32)
Discussion on what it means to outgrow clients, spaces, and seasons in business.

The Discomfort and Necessity of Growth (00:03:00)
Raisa uses the analogy of outgrowing shoes to explain the discomfort and necessity of growth.

Letting Go and Aligning with New Clients (00:04:26)
Exploring the importance of letting go of old clients and attracting those aligned with your current value.

Fears Around Outgrowing and Raising Prices (00:06:58)
Shannon discusses common fears: hurting clients and fear of not replacing them when raising prices.

Accessibility, Pricing, and Scholarships (00:08:31)
Raisa and Shannon discuss making retreats accessible, pricing for value, and offering scholarships.

Energetic Reciprocity and Industry Impact (00:14:15)
Shannon emphasizes the harm of undercharging and the importance of energetic exchange in pricing.

Energetic Alignment and Personal Pricing (00:16:15)
Discussion on how pricing should feel energetically aligned and unique to each leader.

Evolving Offerings and Audience (00:18:19)
How evolving retreat experiences naturally calls in a different audience over time.

Authenticity and Co-Creation in Business (00:19:40)
Raisa discusses the importance of alignment and authenticity in creating retreat experiences.

Magnetizing Your Ideal Clients (00:21:29)
How being rooted in your message and expression attracts the right clients.

Staying True to Your Vision (00:22:31)
Shannon shares an example of a retreat leader staying true to her unique retreat format.

Leadership, Trust, and Not Diluting Your Offer (00:24:19)
Raisa talks about sovereign leadership, authenticity, and trusting your vision.

Setting Boundaries for Retreat Structure (00:26:44)
Advice on not allowing partial attendance at retreats to maintain integrity of the experience.

Raisa’s Upcoming Retreats and Offerings (00:27:10)
Raisa shares details about her upcoming Sedona retreat and her new Retreat Mastery program.

Special Offers and How to Connect (00:29:44)
Information on special offers for listeners and how to connect with Raisa online.

Closing and Call to Action (00:30:57)
Shannon wraps up the episode, encourages reviews, and shares where to find more resources.

EP 238 Beyond the Retreat: Hybrid Business Models for Maximum Impact with Alison Katschkowsky

Can you build a retreat business that isn’t bound by location—and actually expands your impact?

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon chats with long-time health and fitness expert Alison Katschkowsky about building a hybrid retreat business model that combines the power of in-person transformation with the scalability of online programs.

Alison shares her 30+ year journey from brick-and-mortar fitness to digital expansion, and how she now helps other entrepreneurs add retreats as a powerful layer to their business—without overhauling their structure.

They dive into:

The power of hybrid models (and how they outlive fads)
How retreats can enhance your brand, not distract from it
Creative ways to offer transformation in both in-person and online formats
Alison’s behind-the-scenes plan for her luxe Amalfi Coast retreat

If you’ve been wondering how to blend the best of both worlds—connection and scale—this episode is your blueprint.

Retreats aren’t just an event—they’re a business growth strategy.

Connect with Alison

https://thealisonk.com/meet-alison

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

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Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Today I am so excited to say that not only do I have an amazing guest, but she's becoming an amazing friend and soon to be business partner, which we cannot wait to talk about that we're going to drop some little, little hints about what we have in store. But Alison, welcome to the show again.

Alison 00:00:49 It is always a good day in my world when I can talk to you, Shannon. So it's.

Shannon 00:00:52 All good. Amen. I feel the same. So, Allison, why don't you just refresh for those who maybe did hear your show or just let people know who you are and what brought you to this point.

Alison 00:01:05 My name is Allison Koski, and you don't have to say that. For those of you listening, most people just say Allison K. But just so you know, when you look at my last name, the c h is silent. So it's really just Katz Koski. So it's a little bit easier to say, but Allison K works. So so and I my background is in health and fitness. I've been in the health and fitness industry for over 30 years. I was a very successful brick and mortar business owner for a lot of those years, until I started going online about ten years ago. That's about when I started doing retreats. It was probably 2013, 2014, something in there when it was really still a very new concept. And so what I figured out was, is that the big question back then was, is do we need to just now that online is becoming big and everyone was moving their business online. It was like, you know, well, we're just going to go in this direction.

Alison 00:01:56 And so my argument was always, you don't have to choose one. You can do both. And then when the pandemic hit, everybody went online. And now what's interesting is, is that everybody's going back to adding some kind of in-person, because you and I are both seeing this in the retreat space. It's just it's blowing up there. Everybody and their mother is thinking about retreats now, which is great. It's great for us. It's great for the industry. But but I just think there is there is a lot of opportunity there for so many people.

Shannon 00:02:24 I love this. One of the things that Alison and I talked about before we recorded is, is kind of the topics which Alison and I could spend, honestly, you guys weeks on this podcast talking about business and retreats and, and all of that good stuff. but one of the things I thought would be really relevant is a hybrid model. And Alison, you are the queen of this. You help people build this. So tell me what that looks like for the retreat industry.

Shannon 00:02:49 What does that even mean when I when we say hybrid model?

Alison 00:02:51 Before I get to that, let me just kind of give my little analogy when I talk about the hybrid model, when we think about a hybrid model, what are we really talking about? We're really talking the best example I can offer for people because I'm a big analogy person. The best example I can offer for people is think about the hybrid car. What is the hybrid car? Do the hybrid car allows you to use gas or electricity? Right. So it's both. And so one of the selling points is because it's a hybrid model, the car can go further. You can get further on a tank of gas. Therefore it's the maintenance is better right. It will cost you less in gas in the long run. So you see there, not the car. Literally. There's no choice made as to whether or not you go one or the other. The same thing is true when we do the hybrid business model in our business.

Alison 00:03:39 Now back in 2012, 2013, 2014, when the online space was really blowing up, this is when social media was really becoming the thing. you know, a lot of people were starting to think this is kind of the direction that I want to go with my business. And in my industry, it was blowing up like crazy. Then what happened when the pandemic hit It is that everybody went online. And the good news is, is that we could go online because it was available. But the bad news is, is that people sort of got away from being in person. And now what we're seeing because it's 2025, is that really the best combination? The best plan is to combine both. And one of the things that I started doing back when the online space was really getting big was that I started slowly dipping my toe in the water of online. And what did that look like? It looked like offering like online challenges, like connecting with people online. And then of course, when the pandemic hit, it was like you had to go all in.

Alison 00:04:38 And for me and a lot of other people in my industry, I had to basically start over. Basically my business as I knew it went out the window, but it was time for me to put my money where my mouth was and really make it work. And that's what I did. And that's one of the things that I really teach my clients how to do today, because you don't have to choose. That's the beauty of it.

Shannon 00:04:57 That is the beauty of it is that you don't have to choose, Jews, especially today. Because you're right, Alison. You know, years ago, I mean, well, to be honest with you, years ago, the online business was not, you know, obviously what it is today, but you kind of felt like you had to fall into one or the other categories. So you're you're absolutely right. Tell me.

Alison 00:05:15 there are a lot of people today that still feel like you have to fall into one or the other, because these are conversations I have every day with people when they say, well, I can't really be myself online, I can't really.

Alison 00:05:25 It just doesn't feel the same. I'm not good at it. Or they'll say about in person, well, that's just not really what I do. This is what I'm used to. And this is kind of the conundrum that we found ourselves in.

Shannon 00:05:36 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yeah totally agree. I hear that all the time. As well as just people saying, well, my business is online, they're not going to want to meet in person, or the other way around.

Shannon 00:06:26 You know, everything I do is in person. So you're right. It is. Sometimes we get pigeonholed and we just assume that it has to be in that that way. Can you? Can you give us an example of maybe somebody you've worked with and like what this looks like in real life when somebody is considering it a hybrid model?

Alison 00:06:41 Well, I mean, there are actually lots of examples. But one example pretty much right now is I have a client right now who has an in-person, primarily in-person business. This is how people work with her. They come to see her, they book an appointment with her. She has some online resources, like she has an e-book and she has some other things, but it's really hardly the same thing as having an experience with her. And one of the things that we're actually working on right now is building out a retreat piece to go with her in-person business. Now, that might not seem like a typical hybrid model, but what she has to do is literally build an online presence to go with that in-person offering.

Alison 00:07:21 Because in order to offer retreats, if you have a successful in-person business, is is that you have to be always reaching more people. So this is something else that we hear a lot of people say where they say, well, I don't know that my people would want to go on a retreat. I don't know if my people would want to do something in person. And so my question is always, how do you know that they don't? And so what we have to always ask ourselves is, what are we doing to consistently put ourselves out there and have us meet more people and expand our audience? And that's really what it's all about too.

Shannon 00:07:53 I'm biased, of course, but for me, if there's anyone that I trust and I work with in any capacity or just consume their information. I would love to fucking get in person. You know what I mean? Like, whether it's a conference or a mastermind or a retreat, whatever it is. I mean, I don't, you know. Yes, there are I'm sure there are people in this world who are incredibly introverted.

Shannon 00:08:14 And just like that just makes their skin crawl. But for the most part, I think there's a good audience for anybody doing anything online that they could create an in-person experience.

Alison 00:08:26 Yeah, and the energy is just different when you're in person. Like, think about it, when you go to an in-person event, it's very different than if you're on a, say, a zoom call or a group networking session or something online where you see everybody's faces and they're just, you know, squares on the screen. You can still talk to people because I think human connection can still be meaningful that way. But it's not the same thing from being in person.

Shannon 00:08:49 I agree, I agree, and I'm grateful. Right? We're grateful that we have these online tools that we can do these things. But I'll be honest with you. so I belong to Genius Network. It's an incredible Networking group. It's really a servant group. That's just incredible. And every month we meet either online or in person, you can choose one or the other.

Shannon 00:09:07 Right. So that it fits your schedule. And I'm super. I hope they don't hear this. But the online I like minimize it. I'm doing other work. It's still just as good information. It's just badass. But I'm over here multitasking. I'm answering text messages whatever. The in person lights my fire so much that when I get back home I am like, bring it! We are. We're fixing to make some shit happen. And so yes, am I grateful that we have the tools available? Absolutely. do do I think, though, that we get more or at least a very vibrant, different, action packed energy from in person? Yes, I do.

Alison 00:09:47 Yeah. And I just think that to piggyback on what you just said and to sort of finish my thought from before is that you really want to think about the hybrid model from two vantage points, really. And this is what I have found works the best with most people. It's like the example that I just gave of my current client, who has the in-person business, and we're adding a retreat.

Alison 00:10:05 And so you might be sitting there thinking, well, that's too impersonal elements. Well, you're right, it is. But she's also building an online presence to go with it. That can still be considered a hybrid model. The other way to look at it would be if you primarily serve your clients online, whether that's a membership or an online program or a mastermind or whatever group coaching program. And then you insert some type of in-person retreat experience, whether it be a private retreat, a small group retreat, a boutique retreat, or even a small group summit, right then that is also can be considered a hybrid model that the advantage, the commonality with both of those is, is that you've taken your expertise and you're monetizing it in a number of different ways, and that is really what it's about for the future.

Shannon 00:10:51 Amen. Hallelujah. Oh my goodness. You're speaking my language. I'm hoping that there's people listening to this that either have been considering retreats or are in the retreat business because you're right either side and are thinking creatively how they can add that other aspect.

Shannon 00:11:05 So if you are hosting retreats, how can you add on that online aspect, which, by the way, continues to support the people that you are working with or who've showed up, right? And then if you're online, how can you incorporate in-person events? I mean, I know you and I are like, duh. This is a no brainer, but I'm hoping that there's like creative juices that are flowing for people on either side going, ooh, I could do X, and X doesn't have to look like what Allison does, and it doesn't have to look like what I do.

Alison 00:11:33 Like X could be a number of different ways.

Shannon 00:11:35 Yeah. And I love that you're like it could be a summit. It could be a mastermind. It could be a gathering. It could be a retreat. It could be look, it could be whatever. and same thing for the online portion of it. It could be coaching, it could be group coaching. It could be mastermind. It could be, Yeah.

Shannon 00:11:51 I mean, it literally could be all the same names that you use for the other side. It's just structured differently. in the content is provided, however, it is that you like to provide content, So.

Alison 00:12:00 Yeah. And you just. Well I think too. For people listening, I think what you want to always keep in mind is, is that the object if you're an entrepreneur now going into the future, the object is really about your personal brand. It's about what are you about? And what do you stand for? What, what are you for and what are you against? And it's like when you look at being able to offer a number of different ways that people can access you. So in a way that, I mean, people could come into you from your website, from a newsletter, from a challenge of some type, from an online program that you're offering. But don't discount those in-person opportunities, too, because there's a number of different ways that you can monetize all of what you do.

Alison 00:12:42 And then that sets you up not only financially better for the future, but it puts you in a position where you're always meeting people. And when you're a business owner, you can never know too many people.

Shannon 00:12:53 Okay, so I love that we are talking financials a little bit because as people who have listened to my podcast know, No, I'm in the retreat business, not the retreat hobby. And so Allison and I and our good friend Aaron now daily have conversations about this. And also hint, hint. This will be part of what we launch. And I think we're launching it in October. October. Yes. So stay tuned. But yeah, we're launching it in October. But it will be happening in 2026. Anyhow, we're all about how can we increase our business and our profit? Totally. and this again, is to me a no brainer if you're doing really well on the online space. Dude, add that that in-person space and it just contributes to your bottom line and vice versa.

Shannon 00:13:42 You're still serving the same people. It's still in your genre. It's all connected. It's just a different way of delivering the information and adding more profit to your bottom line.

Alison 00:13:53 Yeah. And also, I think to what I just want to say, again, for people listening is, is that it really? You know, I don't want to make it sound like we're just sitting here counting money and money bags. It's not about greed at all. You know, it's really about being able to serve at a much higher level. And when you're when you're able to offer somebody a transformative experience, like something in person, like a retreat or a group event or something, you're just adding massive value for them and you're adding massive value for yourself. And it's a win for everybody.

Shannon 00:14:24 Yes. See? Speaking the same language win win, win, win win for everybody. I just love that so much. The other thing that we kind of talked about real briefly is the business logistics side, right. So whatever your your LLC is or your company or your formation, you've started it off at X, it's, you know, online or it's retreats.

Shannon 00:14:45 There's no need at the beginning to, to do anything differently. Right. I mean, Alison, you were just talking about this. Tell us about your journey, about how that was and then now what you are thinking of doing in the future because of.

Alison 00:14:55 Yeah, when I, when I first started doing retreats, I got to be honest. I I'll tell you, because my background is in health and fitness. I thought it was going to be a fitness weekend. That was kind of my initial vision was to do these boot camps, these workout camps. And I'll tell you, and this is probably a really bad analogy, but I'm just going to say it my, my, my inspiration for doing it was watching programs like The Biggest Loser, where people would just go somewhere and they'd stay for a few days or. And in that case, it was a lot longer. And that's not really what I had in mind, but it was taking people out of town somewhere where we could really focus on themselves.

Alison 00:15:30 And since at the time I was 100% working in fitness, operating a very successful small studio with a small team, I thought, this is a no brainer. This is a great way to give people kind of a family type experience, you know? And so over the years, that vision kind of morphed into something a little more boutique like as I started getting more involved and interested in personal development and, you know, daily self-care strategies. I've always loved to travel. And so I sort of found a niche in providing what I like to call a futuristic, visionary experience. One of the things that I use in all of my retreat programs is the use of a compass. I talk all about the direction that you're moving, the direction of your future, being aligned with your future self, etc., etc. so that's a lot of what we do. But now, back then, all I was thinking about was offering. This would be a really fun experience to offer for my clients. I wasn't even thinking about starting another business.

Alison 00:16:25 You know, I was just thinking, ding ding ding! This is a way to help more people. This is a way to give them more. It's going to be fun for me. Let's just try it and see what happens. You know, and I started off as really small groups. And then they grew and they grew to like 6 to 8 people traditionally, which is usually about my sweet spot. And so now ten, 12 years later, at some point, what I'm looking at in the next year or two is branching off the retreat part of my business and starting a whole separate company, because I'm traveling more and more as as are you. And, you know, there's a lot more that's on the horizon. Ahead that's going to be tied into this direction for me. And so what I want people listening to understand is, look, dip your toe in it first and kind of play with it and make it work for you. And then if it makes sense down the road, then we can certainly talk about what that looks like as a business.

Shannon 00:17:18 Yeah, I, I totally agree. Yeah. I love this so much. So if you haven't gotten anything else from this podcast, expand your horizon and think creatively about how you could add either the online portion or the in-person portion to your current business model. Alison's contact information will be in the show notes. She is the master at helping you brainstorm this, build it, envision it, get it going. So please contact her. And she's got an incredible retreat coming up in Italy. Allison, about that retreat in October.

Alison 00:17:52 And at the time that we're recording this, it's we have four rooms open, and I'm partnering with a colleague of mine who lives over there, and she speaks the language and she's a phenomenal health coach. And we've got an amazing program where we've got introductions into private family vineyards and wineries and gardens and things that you're just not going to find. If you go on TripAdvisor or Google and look for the the cool thing to do on the Amalfi Coast, which is where we're going to be.

Alison 00:18:19 So if this kind of speaks to you, then I definitely would encourage you to reach out because I'm really expecting these rooms to fill up fairly soon.

Shannon 00:18:27 Love it. They absolutely will. So Alison, thank you so much for being on the show and I can't wait to release our big stuff coming in the future.

Alison 00:18:35 So we're going to have to, we're going to have to come back and do another episode about that.

Shannon 00:18:39 Oh, no. Absolutely, absolutely.

Alison 00:18:41 Yeah, 100%.

Shannon 00:18:44 Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at the Retreat. See you next time.

EP 237 True North Leadership: Building Profitable Men’s Retreats with Brent McCann

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Brent McCann, founder of the True North Retreat, to talk about the rising tide of men’s retreats—and what it takes to make them successful and sustainable. Brent shares how he transitioned from corporate HR into the retreat space, the lessons learned from his first Sedona retreat (including the power of trusting the process), and how he’s now crafting a profitable, aligned retreat business.

They dive into:

Why men book differently than women—and how to speak directly to them
Pricing strategies that work (and how Brent raised his profit margin from 1% to 30%)
How to design high-impact experiences that create transformation and build community
What it looks like to scale retreats with intention, alignment, and purpose

Brent's upcoming True North Men's Retreat in Austin (Oct 23–26) is designed for men at a crossroads—ready to step out of the noise, zip-line into clarity, and walk away reconnected to purpose.

Connect with Brent: https://truenorthretreat2025.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

Subscribe:

Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00 Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon. I am super stoked about my guest today. Before we started recording, I told our guest that I don't have enough of them on my show or enough of them. You know that I see in the retreat space. So welcome Brent to the show. I'm so excited you're here.

Brent 00:00:44 Thank you. Shannon, it's my pleasure to be here. I appreciate the time.

Shannon 00:00:48 Yes. So Brent is a retreat host. And what I meant by there's not enough of them, or at least I don't see enough of them. And so maybe it's just not on my radar as much as it should be, is that there's not enough men hosting men retreats, in my opinion, and Brent hosts men retreats that look absolutely fantastic.

Shannon 00:01:06 But I don't want to take away too much of your thunder, Brent. So why don't you just tell us all about who you are, what you do, and what brought you to where you are now?

Brent 00:01:13 Absolutely. Thank you. So, I'm a previous corporate, employee. I was a, you know, a mid senior level HR leader for about ten years working in corporate America. Before that, I was in the car wash industry working as an operations leader. So for for like 15, 20 years, I was working for the man. And I got to the point where, last year, well, about two years ago, I went to an event out in Austin and I was really moved by it. And in that moment, sitting with 100 people, I looked to my friend and I said to him, I said, listen, man, I'm going to do this someday. I want to do this kind of thing. And I didn't know how it was going to happen. I didn't know what to expect.

Brent 00:01:53 But, what ended up working out was that, you know, last year, you know, I made a pretty good deal on a real estate thing that I was doing on the side. And about Q3, Q4 of last year, I had this epiphany that like, if I wanted to, I could probably take a year, year and a half off and see if I could grow this, this retreat business into something.

Shannon 00:02:15 And yes.

Brent 00:02:16 Yeah. So it was really, it was exciting and nerve wracking at the same time. Right? You know, it's like, I have no idea what I don't know. yep. But I trust. Right? You know, I trusted and, I actually did a, I went to this breathwork, certification thing, and I came back from that in December of last year, and I was all of a sudden I was in a meditation after doing a breathwork. And it was like I felt like, you know, the universe just zapped into my head and was like, you should do a men's retreat.

Brent 00:02:47 And I'm like, okay.

Speaker 3 00:02:51 I didn't think about that. But, you know, I was like, all right. Like, let's, let's look at this.

Brent 00:02:55 And, and but I didn't know where, you know, like I had coordinated things in corporate HR. Before, you know, corporate retreat type things, but not in this space. And I felt this, this urge to go to Sedona. And I had never been to Sedona before. I knew nothing about it. Literally had no idea where it even was. But I was like, okay, that's cool. Like, let's go. and, you know, six months later, you know, I had my first retreat. So, you know, it's been a journey. You know, it's, it's a it's a gift. It's really what it comes down to. So, you know, I don't wanna get too long winded on it, but I.

Shannon 00:03:28 Know that this is great. Okay, so there's so many things that happened just in this first snippet.

Shannon 00:03:34 the first thing is, is, like, you definitely received your download because for you to have a download that says, go to Sedona and you've never even been there or didn't even know where it is. that's definitely a download. It's not usually what I would recommend unless it's a download. Right. Because, you know, we we typically want to host at least our first retreat. and I'm even a fan of saying all retreats in places we've been to at least one time. However, there are definitely situations like this where something is speaking to you and you've just got to follow it. And I love this so much. Let's talk about the fact. Steve, here's the thing, guys. What we're going to talk about today is Brent's recap of his first retreat, and then now how he's going to learn from that retreat and go forward. Because I think a lot of people, Brent, they think my first retreat, I'm going to make $1 million and it's going to be knocked out of the park.

Shannon 00:04:26 And I also think there are a lot of people out there making it sound like you can do that, like you can just all of a sudden be an instant success. But the truth is that there's no such thing in any industry. I don't care what it is. If corporate, small business, large business, it doesn't matter what it is. You're typically not an instant success unless you consider the learning, the success, which I do. Right? Because that's what those first few retreats are. At least the first 1 to 3 are learning experiences and their investments for future ones. So I would love, Brent, for you to tell us what happened on your first retreat and what was the biggest downloads and learnings you got from it?

Brent 00:05:04 Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the the goal here was just to break even. You know, I, I, you know, I remember listening to episodes that you had shared and even in your book where it says like don't go too far away.

Brent 00:05:16 And I'm like, oh my God. Like I live in Western New York. I'm going to this, this place I've never even been to. Right. So, you know, like, I booked a flight and I got out there two weeks later and I scoped it out, and and things just really aligned very well. but really, you know, what I learned from this was in the retreats, probably. And as with anything new, who you're coming up against is not the people that I was advertising to or, you know, my family. I was coming up against myself. You know.

Shannon 00:05:47 This? Yes.

Brent 00:05:49 Vulnerable space to be in, financially vulnerable, energetically vulnerable. And, you know, and to know that, like, not everybody catches the, you know, picks up what you're throwing down there. Right? Like, people are like, what the hell are you talking about? You're doing this, you know? So, yeah, I really I invested in a program. that was okay.

Brent 00:06:11 Like, I spent a lot of money on it, but it was. It had a pretty good return for me, at least, to get me familiar, because I didn't have, like, an Instagram following. I didn't have a LinkedIn following. I, I'm not on Facebook that often. So how do you do this? Right? and that was part of facing off with myself is like overcoming this limit, these limiting beliefs that I need those things in order for that to happen. And, I'll be honest with you, I was going to I was going to throw it out, like I that got to be I had one person sign up. It was the end of March. the, the, the agreements that I signed were coming into the point were like, okay, you're you're within 90 days, you're within 45 days. You need to, you know, make sure you get a deposit. You're on the hook for this. And, I just didn't see it happening and I just totally I gave up, and I was going to take the website down.

Brent 00:07:03 And I remember thinking, you know, I've got it. I'm going to take the website down, on like Thursday or no, it was like a week before. And then all a sudden I'm like, I'll just wait. I'll wait a little bit. I'm going to have this meeting with a friend and then we'll see what happens. Well, before this meeting with my friend, I'm making breakfast one morning and I get this text alert and I'm like, what the hell is this from? And I look, and somebody had actually registered for the event like a straight cold registration. And all of a sudden I had this moment and it's like, wait a minute, maybe that vision from a couple months ago is true. Maybe this like, maybe there is something out there that's matching what people need or what men need, and maybe I should try a different route. And so it brought up this sense of inspiration. and then I signed up, 4 or 5 other people within two weeks.

Shannon 00:07:49 Like it just.

Shannon 00:07:50 Wow.

Brent 00:07:51 Yeah. Yeah, it was really powerful. so, you know, from that lens, like, I learned, like, if I try to force it, it's going to be way more difficult than if I just, you know, take the right action and allow it to kind of manifest or create itself and create the outcomes. Yes. And then also, you know, even just from the the overall experience, like I had a whole budget thing written out, I, I'm a numbers guy. So I was looking at a lot of that, and, and trusting the process that, you know, like I, I knew my numbers well enough so I could speak to things confidently. I knew it was going to be within like $500 plus or minus, so I was okay with that. and then and then really the, the self-efficacy of realizing, right, like in the midst of the retreat, realizing I'm doing it like, wow, this is really happening, right? Seeing other people's lives start to change in a matter of four days.

Brent 00:08:44 And then afterwards, that feeling of, you know what? I can do this. And now after the response that I got from them, I'm like, I think I should do this more. And so that's what led me to to building into this second retreat now.

Shannon 00:08:58 Okay, Brent. First of all, congratulations. You've done your first retreat and in my opinion, it was a huge success. Also, I want to harp on a little bit or not harp on. That's not the right word, but I want to just celebrate. I guess, again, this mindset shift that you had, because that's really what sounds like happened when you got that second, that second booking. I'm a big fan, I tell. I like to tell people who are who are new in the business that if you got one booking and it's an aligned booking, right, it's you got one aligned booking, then there's others out there. You're just either not speaking the right language, taking the right action, etc. and so forth.

Shannon 00:09:37 I also like to say, now if you've got none, then we need to revisit what what your words are and who you're talking to and all the other stuff. But if you get one, at least aligned one. The other thing is you said something really powerful. My opinion is you can manifest and attract and allow all you want, but if it doesn't have action assigned with it, then it's just daydreaming to me. And daydreaming is fine, but it won't equate to what you just said happened in your mindset shift. So another congratulations, because that's really cool. So yay. First retreat. Nailed it. Nailed the mindset shift. Now coming out of that, and also, I am so glad that you got to see some of the transformation for other people through the space that you're holding, because that's what you're going to hold on to, Brent, as you continue to grow your business, because now you're going to based upon our conversation before we start recording, you're going to build this into a profitable machine.

Shannon 00:10:37 And in order to do that, you're going to run into more obstacles. The mindset is going to get a little Willy Wonka. And we'll talk about that and and your plans. But but you're just you will naturally. That's what happens when we are on the precipice of growing big. But you're going to hold on to that whole like, I saw what this does. I know the value of what this is like. I'm just I'm a big believer that we can have impact and income. They don't have to be exclusive. And so anyway, so share with me now like what are we doing to make sure that it's profitable. What are some changes or what are some things that you're doing.

Brent 00:11:15 100%. You know, like I there were things that we did in like Sedona, an inexpensive place to be. Like, I didn't know that. I know that now, you know, and there's there's times a year to be there and times of year that you don't want to be there. And, you know, so what I really took away from this, like I kind of did like what I call like an after action report.

Brent 00:11:33 Right. So when I was in the military, after every mission, you look back and you say, okay, what was it that we did? What did we do? Well, what could we do differently? Right. So after doing this, what I really looked at was like some things were they didn't really have the impact, you know, like. so for example like we went on like this Jeep tour, like it was nice, it was fun. But like the guys weren't raving about it, it was just more of like nice to have now the zipline tour. Everybody loved it. Even those that were afraid of it and overcame themselves there. They loved it. So, you know, when I look at that, you know, I think about like, okay, because part of my modus operandi is every day we're going to do something off site. So like we go to hotels, I like to stay in nicer places. so we're going to stay at, like, a nice hotel.

Brent 00:12:17 We're going to go out, we're going to do something off site. We're going to come back during the day. We're going to train, you know, have teachings, all that kind of thing. And then we're going to go out for nice dinners at the same time. And what I realized was like, as I, as I build into Austin, like, I don't need to, like we're going to do ziplines. Like for sure. Right. Like that's going to be awesome. But like I looked at like, oh, maybe we could do horseback riding and we could do this and we could do that. And I'm like, but does it need to happen? Right? So like when I look at it and I realize something's going to cost $2,000, but is it really going to align with what I'm teaching? Is it going to make an impact and help drive home what we're learning? Right? Or is it, you know, kind of like how, you know, you talk about like, yeah, people want to know like the activities, but they're looking for the feeling.

Brent 00:13:02 They're looking for the transformation more than anything else. Right? So now as I look at it, what I'm looking for now is, is what what what are the critical few that are going to really land, right. And you know, for me ziplines that that's something that lands because even if you love them, you're still going to get a rush of adrenaline. There's still going to be some type of emotional response in our body. and you know just I like to have something a little bit. That's, that's specific to the area too. Right. So like when we go out to dinner we're not going to like KFC. We're not going to McDonald's. We're going to go to nice places that are in the area. and, and you know, one I want I want the guys to feel good. Right. So yeah, as I look at that now and then I look at how I'm pricing it, like I knew I was underpriced. I didn't know how much until I was actually on the retreat.

Brent 00:13:52 And I remember, like, we rented like this big SUV and we're driving to this, I don't even know what we were doing, but I remember driving with all the guys in the truck, and and I'm like, this is like a $5,000 retreat. Like, they're like, I would pay. Not because I'm biased, but like, I would pay $5,000 for this. And I was charging, like 335. Yeah. So yeah, as I look at this now, now I've created, you know, the packages that range between 3500 to 5000. and then I'm adding the value. Right. Like, it's it's all dependent on what value you want out of it. And then also with what I've reduced from, from an expense standpoint. Now that margin went from really, like, maybe 1% to now I'm targeting more like 20 to 30% margin. And that.

Shannon 00:14:38 Gives me, yeah.

Brent 00:14:39 Bigger wiggle room and confidence to step into it because I know what it's worth.

Shannon 00:14:44 Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss.

Shannon 00:14:49 I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yes, yes, I noticed this. So Brent and I were talking before we started recording about. it's just my philosophy. Not all hosts are like this, but I'm not a discount person. I'm just. I absolutely am anti discount. And I love though, Brent. How you. I mean, I really loved how you built the value into each offering. So it's kind of like okay here's your first soft touch point you which includes this. And it's you know, 3500 or whatever it was.

Shannon 00:15:54 This touch point includes these extra things, and it's 45, you know what I mean? Like, I just I absolutely love that I think that you are positioning yourself in such a way that it is going to be beautifully aligned for the guest to get what they want out of it, and then you to feel energetically aligned in a financial way for what you're offering. Right? Yeah, yes. Because the ones that are paying more, they're getting more from you. and so it's it's a really beautiful exchange. So it sounds like you're totally aligned. Tell me the difference about planning for Sedona, which, by the way, I'm really glad to hear that you at least went and visited the spot before you hosted there.

Brent 00:16:33 So yeah.

Shannon 00:16:33 Yeah, that really helps. And anybody who's listening, if you're planning a retreat and you've never been there, you've I'm telling you, you've got to make a site visit. It just makes all the difference in the world. and it just really does. But tell me the difference is in planning.

Shannon 00:16:47 Now, your second retreat with a different location. like, what are some things that have come up for you in this process?

Brent 00:16:54 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what's nice now is I kind of know the recipe, right? Like, I kept everything the same. Like I'm looking like on my monitor to my right. Has everything written out different? Tabs on the worksheet. I know exactly what I'm looking at. And I've built this. I mean, you don't get to where. Not that I was, like, super high up, but like, you don't achieve success in air in corporate unless you know how to be a business partner, which means working with operations leaders, figuring out how to, you know, make money with the people. You have those kind of things. So when I looked at this and I'm like, okay, well, then I know what I need. I mean, I've done this with entrepreneurs, I've done this with fortune 500 companies. I need to do this for myself and in some ways kind of put myself in check, too, like if I'm dreaming, like I had a conversation with someone and they're like, oh, we're going to do this, and then we're going to have affiliate marketing and this and that.

Brent 00:17:43 And I'm like, hang on a second. Like, let's get let's get up on our two feet first before we start thinking about this. You know, I love the energy, but let's just, you know, little reality check. so, you know, when I look at this now, I've got this the recipe. At the same time, I've been to Austin like 3 or 4 times in the last year, year and a half. So like, I'm familiar with where I want to go, I know that I don't want to take everybody out on sixth Street. If I want them to stay sober and have a really good, you know, experience besides having like a party until way late and feeling hungover. Right? So, yes, you know, so I know the spots where I want to go, you know, I know I knew the type of hotel we wanted to stay at. And so this time, it's a lot easier because I've been there, you know, and now and as I build into next year, I'm going to have several other retreats.

Brent 00:18:31 And in some of these areas I've not been. So I look at it as it's an investment now I need to get out there. I need to to move and shake. I need to talk to people. You know, I've got three trips this summer to go to different places because I so firmly believe that that there's an energetic calling for this type of work, that it's just a matter of like where and when and how. So that how has become a lot easier now that I've gone through the one.

Shannon 00:18:58 How, yes, yes to all of that. Well, We'll tell our listeners. Who is your ideal guest? And then tell us about your upcoming retreat.

Brent 00:19:06 Absolutely. Thank you. So the ideal guest is obviously a man. it could be anywhere. you know, typically what I've seen, you know, in this last retreat was anywhere from their, their early 40s to their mid 60s, you know. for me, it doesn't really matter if the the key of what I look for is, are you at a crossroads in your life? Do you know that you want something different? Do you know what that is? And maybe it's just that you're not sure of how to get there.

Brent 00:19:32 And if that's the case, then you're my ideal client. Because what I look at is, you know, I have a balance. I, I don't get super woo woo because especially as men, we don't typically want to get into that woo woo space. And you know, and I should also add that my ideal client is somebody who really hasn't been in this space before, that they haven't been to a retreat before. If they have been, maybe it's in a corporate background. So now what I'm doing is I'm giving them some of the neuroscience behind And change some of the things that have been found over the last ten, 15 years as it relates to meditation and breathwork, and then also tying that into a little bit of the woo woo just to get, you know, dab their dab their toes in it a little bit, but not shock the nervous system to.

Shannon 00:20:15 Love.

Brent 00:20:16 It. I don't want them walking out going like I'm never doing this again. You know I want.

Shannon 00:20:20 I love it.

Brent 00:20:21 You'll walk around, you know, walk out saying like, you know what? It was the the best balance of of opportunity. I learned some things. I tried some new things. And as a result, this is what's happened for me.

Shannon 00:20:31 I love it. Awesome. So when is your next retreat? We know it's in Austin. When is that happening?

Brent 00:20:37 Yeah, it's October 23rd through 26th of this year. and yeah, we're going to kick off. We're going to stay at this beautiful hotel just in the hill country, about 20 minutes south of Austin. and then we're going to kick off, like I said, ziplining all the fun stuff there. But more importantly than anything, we're going to have a strong sense of community. We're going to have anywhere from 8 to 12 guys that are going to get together, you know, from all over the country and they're here to. To better themselves. They're here to get through whatever's been blocking them. And that, to me is the most important part, is that transformation truly happens when you get people that are looking for it and are hungry enough to to sit at the table and see what happens.

Brent 00:21:18 So I'm very excited for it. I think it's going to be incredible.

Shannon 00:21:21 Well, hell yes Brent, all of that information will be linked in the show notes, so please check it out and share it with someone who you think might really benefit from this, because I can tell from the website, from your history, and from your energy that this is going to be an incredible retreat. So thank you so much, Brent, for sharing your history, your lessons, and your upcoming offerings. It is so appreciated.

Brent 00:21:43 Thank you Shan, I really appreciate the opportunity.

Shannon 00:21:45 Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at The Retreat. See you next time.

Why Most Retreat Leaders Fail to Sell Out — and How to Fix It with Erin Haag

Retreat not filling up? You’re not alone—and it’s probably not your price.

In this power-packed episode, Shannon Jamail is joined by pricing and profit strategist Erin Haag to break down the real reasons most retreats fail to sell out—and exactly how to fix it. From outdated marketing approaches to misaligned pricing strategies, they unpack the blind spots that hold retreat leaders back from profitability.

Erin shares her proven formula for pricing retreats using math over emotion—and the key profit margins every retreat business should aim for. Shannon and Erin also talk about why transformation sells more than price, the importance of daily sales activity, and why being in the right rooms with high-achieving peers can change everything.

PLUS: Erin shares a free resource for retreat leaders—her Top 5 Tips for Hosting Profitable Retreats.

Erins Top Five Tips: https://luxuryinbusinessretreats.mykajabi.com/top-5-tips-1

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

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Bio of Happy Hour Podcast

The Happy Hour Podcast, hosted by best-selling author Shannon Jamail, invites listeners to join in on engaging conversations about business, life, relationships, and topics commonly discussed during happy hour gatherings. With a focus on connection, growth, and thriving, the podcast aims to provide valuable insights and foster a sense of community among its listeners.

Happy Hour offers various retreats and training designed to support personal and professional development. These events provide opportunities for individuals to connect with others, expand their knowledge, and enhance their well-being. Retreat Ranch, a special retreat center located near Austin, Texas, serves as a dedicated space for intimate retreats, events, and unique overnight stays.

One of the transformative tools featured by Happy Hour is the Yoga Teacher Training program. This training course goes beyond yoga practice, serving as a life course that enables participants to delve deeper into self-discovery and their connection to the world. It offers powerful tools for personal growth and can also prepare individuals who aspire to become yoga instructors.

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