Happy Hour Podcast

In this uplifting and practical episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by UK-based performance coach and former professional dancer Lucy Dutton to talk about something not enough retreat leaders are addressing: how to lead retreats without sacrificing your own well-being.

Lucy shares her powerful journey from the high-stakes world of professional dance to wellness and peak performance coaching—and how her deep understanding of energy, values, and leadership now helps retreat leaders avoid burnout.

Together, they explore:

✅ Why energy management matters more than location or food
✅ The hidden danger of leading retreats while running on empty
✅ How to use your personal values as a decision-making compass
✅ Why your environment directly impacts your energy
✅ The difference between holding space and emotionally oversharing
✅ How to stay inspired and grounded even during high-demand retreats

Whether you're planning your first retreat or you're a seasoned pro, this conversation will help you lead from a place of calm, clarity, and conviction.

About Lucy:

Lucy J Dutton is a certified peak performance coach and speaker , international best selling author with 30 years of experience coaching entrepreneurs on productivity, goal setting, and transforming limiting beliefs. She empowers female holistic service based entrepreneurs and small business owners to become peak performers in life and business.

So that their business grows easily, and they experience fulfilment and joy in their personal life.

Lucy was a professional dancer for 10 years and has been an entrepreneur and coach for over 3 decades. 

Despite the fact that she used to be painfully shy, she found her voice by pushing through the awkward and uncomfortable times. Gradually building her self-confidence and self-belief.

She has founded her own Holistic Peak Performance Coaching business to complement the health coaching she was already doing. With health and fitness being the foundation of everything she does.

Learn more: https://lucyjdutton.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps

Guest Introduction: Lucy Dutton’s Background (00:01:43) Lucy shares her journey from professional dancer to peak performance coach.

The Demands of Dancing and Self-Care (00:04:08) Discussion about the physical and emotional demands of dancing and the importance of self-care.

Retreat Leaders’ Energy Drain (00:05:35) Shannon describes how retreat leaders often neglect their own well-being, leading to exhaustion.

The Importance of Energy and Daily Practices (00:07:32) Lucy explains the significance of maintaining personal energy and implementing daily self-care practices.

Understanding and Aligning with Core Values (00:09:09) Lucy discusses discovering personal values and how misalignment can affect retreat experiences.

Creating Supportive Environments (00:10:24) Lucy outlines the importance of physical, social, and informational environments for retreat leaders.

Avoiding Negative Influences and Comparison (00:11:55) Shannon emphasizes avoiding negative news, unsupportive people, and comparison with other retreat leaders.

Deep Dive into Values and Retreat Alignment (00:15:50) Lucy explains how knowing your values helps in choosing the right retreat venues and collaborators.

Energy as the Key to Retreat Success (00:19:22) Shannon highlights that a leader’s energy can make or break a retreat, outweighing venue or food quality.

How to Work with Lucy Dutton (00:20:14) Lucy shares how listeners can connect with her for coaching and personal development.

Episode Wrap-Up and Resources (00:21:10) Shannon thanks Lucy, mentions additional resources, and closes the episode.

In this heart-filled and high-impact episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with luxury couples retreat host Lesley Jordan to explore the real keys to retreat success-and spoiler alert: it’s not just about the perfect venue or a pretty website.

From her beginnings as a travel agent to launching powerful, profitable retreats for couples of all backgrounds, Lesley shares how mentorship, strategic pricing, and relationship-first marketing changed the game for her. Together, Shannon and Lesley dig into:

• How to actually pick the right business coach (hint: ask about profit)
• Why building real connections beats flashy marketing
• What it takes to design inclusive retreats that sell out and transform lives
• The truth about vetting mentors in a saturated online space
• Lesley’s upcoming LGBTQ+ and heterosexual couples retreats focused on love, intimacy, and reconnection

If you’re building a retreat brand that centers around depth, authenticity, and aligned growth—this one’s for you.

Learn more: www.lavishcouplesretreats.com 

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps:

Introducing Leslie Jordan (00:01:00)
Shannon introduces guest Leslie Jordan, highlighting her energy and inviting her to share her background.

Leslie’s Journey to Retreats (00:01:35)
Leslie shares her transition from travel agent to retreat curator, focusing on luxury retreats for couples and women.

The Power of Coaching in Retreat Business (00:02:25)
Discussion on meeting through a coach, the importance of having a coach, and the loneliness of entrepreneurship.

Finding the Right Coach (00:03:16)
Leslie describes her experience with different coaches, learning about business models, pricing, and defining her retreat offerings.

Building Relationships Over Pretty Marketing (00:04:00)
Leslie explains the importance of building genuine relationships with clients, not just relying on attractive websites.

Creating Lavish Couples Retreats (00:05:02)
Leslie talks about launching her own retreat business, focusing on reconnection and intimacy for various types of couples.

The Value of Multiple Coaches (00:05:24)
Shannon and Leslie discuss the benefits of having more than one coach with different expertise.

Marketing vs. Selling & Relationship Building (00:06:02)
Emphasis on turning marketing activities into real relationships and the changing landscape of the retreat industry.

Learning Strategy and Pricing (00:06:52)
Leslie shares how her coaches helped her with sales strategies, pricing, and repeat business.

Choosing Experienced Coaches (00:07:29)
Shannon stresses the importance of working with experienced coaches who understand the retreat business deeply.

Treating Retreats as a Business (00:09:00)
Discussion on treating retreats as a business model, not just an event, and integrating it with other offerings.

Overcoming Fear and Stagnation (00:09:18)
Leslie recounts how the wrong coaching held her back and how the right coaches helped her move forward.

Vetting Coaches and Profitability (00:10:36)
Advice on vetting coaches, asking about their experience, and ensuring they understand profitability in retreats.

Industry Trends and Red Flags (00:11:37)
Warning about inexperienced coaches and the importance of understanding all aspects of the retreat business.

Profitability is Essential (00:11:59)
Shannon and Leslie agree that breaking even is not a sustainable business model for retreats.

Attending Retreats as Research (00:12:31)
Leslie shares the value of attending retreats, especially those hosted by your coach, to learn logistics and marketing.

The Importance of Being an Attendee (00:13:11)
Shannon emphasizes that aspiring retreat leaders should attend retreats themselves to gain perspective.

Community and Networking Benefits (00:15:07)
Discussion on the community, networking, and collaborations that come from being part of a coaching group.

Ongoing Value of Retreat Attendance (00:16:24)
Leslie and Shannon discuss the ongoing benefits of attending retreats, including support, networking, and personal growth.

Leslie’s Upcoming Retreats (00:17:18)
Leslie shares details about her upcoming retreats for LGBTQ+ and heterosexual couples, and her inclusive approach.

How to Connect with Leslie (00:18:52)
Leslie provides her website and social media handles for listeners to learn more or join her retreats.

Shannon Jamail, Erin Haag, and Alison Katschkowsky come together on this special episode to officially announce the Retreat Industry Forum happening May 14–17, 2026 in Colorado. In this conversation, they share the vision behind the event, why this gathering is unlike anything else in the retreat industry, and what attendees can expect-from powerful keynotes and interactive workshops to a VIP experience designed for deeper strategy and connection.

The big news? The interest list opens TODAY (October 15th) for 10 days only! Those on the list will have first dibs at VIP tickets before they’re released to the general public on November 1st. If you’ve been waiting for your chance to learn from top retreat leaders and transform the way you build, market, and profit from retreats, now’s the time to get in early

Get on the list: retreatindustryforum.com 

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in Colorado 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps

You do not have to run yourself ragged to host powerful, profitable retreats, and this episode is proof.

In this honest and hilarious conversation, Shannon Jamail sits down with Anna VanAgtmael, founder of Wandering Roots and host of 22 retreats since 2018, to explore how retreat leaders can ditch the pressure, drop the people-pleasing, and build a business that’s both meaningful and sustainable.

They dive into:

• The biggest mistakes new retreat leaders make (and how to avoid them)
• Pricing with confidence and energetic alignment
• Why less on the itinerary often leads to more transformation
• How to stop comparing your retreat to everyone else’s

Whether you're an aspiring host or a seasoned retreat pro, this conversation will give you the permission slip you didn’t know you needed: you don’t have to do it all to make it amazing.

Connect with Anna: https://www.yourwanderingroots.com/ 

Instagram: @yourwanderingroots 

Special Offer: Build a profitable retreat in one minute per day: https://retreat.yourwanderingroots.com/ 

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

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Timestamps:

Introduction & Host Welcome (00:00:02)
Shannon introduces the podcast, its purpose, and encourages listeners to subscribe and leave reviews.

Guest Introduction: Anna’s Background (00:01:13)
Anna is introduced; she shares her experience hosting retreats and helping others plan profitable ones.

Anna’s Journey to Retreats (00:02:23)
Anna describes her transition from lab manager to retreat leader after a car accident and discovering yoga.

Current Retreat Structure & Ideal Guests (00:03:46)
Anna explains her current retreat schedule, types of retreats, and the demographics of her typical guests.

Transitioning & Scaling Back Retreats (00:05:00)
Discussion about scaling back the number of retreats to focus on quality and personal fulfillment.

Avoiding Burnout & Preserving Passion (00:06:04)
Anna and Shannon discuss the importance of not overworking and maintaining excitement for each retreat.

Profitability Without Pressure (00:07:19)
Exploring how retreats can be profitable without feeling pressured to do everything or mimic others.

Retreats: Business vs. Expensive Hobby (00:09:29)
Emphasis on treating retreats as a business, not just a passion project or costly hobby.

Letting Go of People-Pleasing & Overstuffed Itineraries (00:11:03)
Advice on avoiding over-scheduling and people-pleasing, and ensuring retreats have free time and focus.

Pricing, Money Beliefs, and Value (00:13:13)
Discussion on pricing retreats, overcoming limiting beliefs about money, and ensuring energetic alignment with pricing.

Gender Differences in Pricing & Money Mindset (00:15:04)
Comparison of how men and women price retreats, and the impact of cultural money beliefs.

Profit, Burnout, and Lifestyle Alignment (00:17:24)
Importance of pricing for sustainability and creating a lifestyle you enjoy, not just covering costs.

Common Mistakes & Lessons Learned (00:18:34)
Anna shares mistakes like trying to do everything alone, not arriving early, and the value of support staff.

Arriving Early & Staying After Retreats (00:20:15)
Best practices for arriving before and staying after retreats to ensure smooth experiences and self-care.

Self-Care for Retreat Leaders (00:21:34)
The importance of post-retreat downtime, rest, and self-care for leaders after guests depart.

How to Connect with Anna (00:22:40)
Anna shares her websites for those interested in attending or planning retreats with her.

In this solo Q&A episode, Shannon Jamail tackles the 12 most frequently asked questions from aspiring and experienced retreat leaders alike.

From knowing when you’re truly ready to host a retreat, to choosing the right venue, pricing for profit, and marketing without sounding salesy, Shannon covers it all with no-fluff, straight-shooting advice.

Whether you're just starting out or looking to sharpen your strategy, these questions are the ones that come up in her DMs, workshops, and mastermind calls every single week.

With years of experience as a retreat host and venue owner, Shannon shares what works (and what to avoid) so you can build profitable, transformational retreats with confidence.

You’ll walk away with clarity, strategy, and a new level of confidence around your retreat business!

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Join me in London
• Get your legal docs for retreats

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon Jamail 00:00:02  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast. The show for visionary coaches, healers, wellness pros and small business owners who aren't just here to host another feel good getaway, but to build a profitable, impactful retreat business. I'm your host, Shannon Jamail, retreat strategist, business mentor, and owner of a 46 acre retreat center. I've hosted over 100 retreats around the world, and I've made every mistake so you don't have to. Each week we'll dive into the mindset, marketing, money, business and mechanics behind sold out profitable retreats. Plus, hear from expert guests who are walking the talk. Whether you're planning your first retreat or scaling your 100th, you're in the right place. Welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Welcome to our welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. I am coming off of an Incredible three day conference that I cannot wait to tell you guys more about. I'm still processing, but it literally is going to change how I show up in what I do and just how I show up as a human.

Shannon Jamail 00:01:10  I'm that excited about it. But today, what we're going to talk about is the top 12 questions I get asked all the time, whether it's from podcast listeners or in my Facebook group or emails or messages like these are the top 12 questions that I get asked all the time. All right, let's dig in. First one, how do I know if I'm ready to lead a retreat? This is such a good question. And actually, if you're asking this question, you're on the right track, period. Because I think too many times people just jump in, they start planning things and making websites and all this stuff, and they have not done any of the work that's really required in order to start hosting retreats. And the first one is asking yourself, how do I know if I'm ready? And to me, there's a few things. The first one is do you have a clear purpose for the retreat? Not just a desire to travel or gather people, but like a clear purpose, a clear promise? What is the transformation? What is the guest going to experience and feel, and what's going to be different at the end of your retreat? Is it super clear? Are you super clear on who you're going to serve? Who is that guest? And I mean super clear.

Shannon Jamail 00:02:24  Like crystal clear. That guest has a name. It's a full avatar. It is. You know exactly who they are, where they live, how much money they make, if they're working out of the home, if they're working in the home, you know where they shop. You know what social platforms they're on. You know exactly who this person is that you are marketing to. So crystal clear on the promise, the transformation and crystal clear on who you are serving. And this isn't just I think I know and go for it. No, this is writing it down. Journaling it out. Getting really deep and nitty gritty in knowing who this person is and what the promises of the transformation is. I cannot emphasize this enough how important this is. So those are the first two things that are really important, because the confidence is going to come from the clarity. Like, truly, your confidence will come from the clarity of knowing exactly who you're going to serve and exactly how you're going to serve and how they're going to feel at the end of your retreat, the transformation that you're going to facilitate.

Shannon Jamail 00:03:25  So that's super important. Before you start hosting, before you even put together anything, there's two things I think you should do. Also the first one is attend retreats. If you've never attended a retreat, you have no business hosting a retreat. I'm just going to say it just like that. You have no business hosting retreats if you're not attending retreats. And when you do start hosting retreats, you should continue to attend retreats. You have to walk the talk. Okay. So attend retreats. You're going to learn so much on retreats. First of all, you're going to get whatever transformation they are promising ideally. But also you're going to learn. What did you love about it? What did you not like about it? How are you going to structure your retreat by the things that you learn from that retreat? Now, that does not mean that you go copy somebody retreat. That's not cool. This is just about market research and understanding what you like as a person and then taking that into your retreat space.

Shannon Jamail 00:04:26  So please understand the difference of that. But you should be attending retreats. The other thing is I highly recommend this, but it's not as important, although I might argue with myself on that. Go work retreats. Go work at a retreat. I have a work exchange program for almost all of my retreats. Lots of hosts offer work exchange type of positions, or there's retreat centers. Whatever it is, however you get in there, go work a retreat. And when you do ask how you can really help behind the scenes as well. I have hosted or I have helped a few retreat leaders that at the end of hosting their own retreat, they're like, this is not for me. This was so much more work than I thought it would be. I was physically and emotionally drained. I do not have the capacity capacity for it or the like for it, whatever. And so they spent a lot of time and money and energy building up this retreat brand, hosting their first retreat, and then realizing, I don't like this.

Shannon Jamail 00:05:26  No thank you. And so go work a retreat. If you do those few things, know exactly who you're going to serve, what you're going to serve, what the transformation is. You attend retreats and work retreats. You will know at the end of that if you are ready. Okay. At that point, if you still feel like, yes, this is what I want to do, then go for it. Question number two how far in advance should I start planning my retreat? This will vary by a couple of variables, I would say. And also, by the way, it varies by your demographic. It varies by your geographic. It varies by your community. As far as do you have an established community? There's so many variables. So I don't feel like there's a one size fits all, but ideally there's somewhere between the 9 to 12 month range. You could go as low as six months. I would not put together a retreat with less than six months. That's just me.

Shannon Jamail 00:06:22  There might be other people out there that will tell you differently, but I wouldn't do it with less than six months. And so the 9 to 12 really, again, it varies. Like for me, my international retreats, I actually plan them two years in advance. And that's for a number of reasons, a lot to do with me personally. And so my retreats that are in my home country, it's definitely 12 months. Part of that too, is I own a venue, and so just having to schedule in things appropriately, like it's just a whole thing, but I really start marketing somewhere between 6 to 9 months. That's when I'm marketing, and that's what I'm selling is between 6 to 9 months. Now, have I seen retreat leaders do it within 2 to 3 months? Yes I have. They're very much exceptions to the rule. Usually. Usually it's because they have a very big community. It's because they've done it before. It's because the community's begging for it. There's just those very active, engaged things that are happening that they are able to do that and and make it work successfully.

Shannon Jamail 00:07:29  Otherwise, again, 9 to 12 months, as little as six months, depending on where you're at and all of that type of thing. If you've answered question number one and you know you still want to do retreats, I would start building an interest list right then and there. Without even having your dates or anything, I would just start building your interest list. So that's just an FYI. Okay. Question number three how do I choose the right location or venue? So I've answered this in our podcast and I've blogged about it. And so there's different resources that you can find that I've already talked about this, but here's what I will say. You need to think about who your ideal guest is. That avatar we talked about like what's their vibe? What is approximately their budget? What's their travel comfort level like? For instance, for me, I thought about hosting a retreat in Greece. But when I realized for me personally, coming from Austin, Texas, how long it was going to take me to get there and how many planes and boats and shuttles I had to get on, I was like, that's just not for me.

Shannon Jamail 00:08:30  And it's it's just an incredible location. By the way, there is no knocking that Greece is an incredible location to host, but I'm not interested in going through that much travel to get there. And so it's probably never going to be on my list. Thinking about your ideal guest, what do they prefer? What amenities are important to your ideal guest. For instance, I had somebody actually contact me or contact the ranch a couple of days ago who I know personally. And she was like, you know, is this a good space for a luxury grieving retreat for women? And my answer is probably not retreat ranch. I listen, I'm biased. Retreat ranch is badass, okay. And the people who have come through here will tell you how badass it is. But I would not at all consider us a luxury venue. We are rustic chic luxury. I mean, we have incredible mattresses, we have bamboo sheets, we have curated products like there's lots of things and amenities and pieces that would be considered luxury.

Shannon Jamail 00:09:28  But as a whole, our facility and our our, our retreat center is not a luxury retreat center. And so just knowing what your ideal guest needs and wants and that it matches you as well, right? Is it matching your needs? Because usually your ideal guest, your avatar, is you, but maybe a few steps behind, right? You've got tools, you've got transformation for them, you've got knowledge for them, but they're somewhat aligned with you. So what do you like? What's important to you? Is it important for it to be nature based? Is it important to have conference rooms like all of that stuff's important, I would say avoid choosing solely on price or aesthetics. You're looking for function support, vibe alignment. Okay. And so really think about what kind of support you would need as a host, especially if you're first time host. And does that facility provide that? Most rental facilities do not unless they are a retreat center. And so just keep that in mind, okay.

Shannon Jamail 00:10:26  When you're looking for venue, hey retreat leaders, listen up. If you've been struggling to price your retreats, fill your retreats, or even start your retreat business, this is your moment. I'm hosting a one day High Impact workshop in London on October 10th. Designed to help you plan price, market and profit from transformational retreat Whether you're just starting out or scaling to your next level. This room is where your clarity begins, and you want to be in rooms that actually level up your business. By the way, it's a total business write up. What better way to visit London and write it off for business? Grab your spot now at Retreat Pro Workshop or click the links in the show notes. I'll see you in London. Next question. What's the right price to charge for my retreat and how do I justify it? I get this all the time, so I really get it. Especially at our venue, new hosts will say, what should I charge for this? And my answer is always, that's up to you.

Shannon Jamail 00:11:27  And here's why. I have had hosts come in my ranch and charge $10,000 per person for a three night stay. That includes specific things, and I have heard hosts come to the ranch and host a three night retreat and charge less than $1,000 per person. Let that sink in for a minute. And by the way, both were sold out. So it really, really depends. What are you promising? What is the transformation? My $10,000 a person, retreat host is very niched, very specific, very exclusive. It is. I mean, it's it's a very specific demographic. Okay, so the more niched you get and the more specific you get and the more tools you're providing, the more that has value to it. Okay. So it just depends. You do not though, price it based on how much the venue cost, the food cost, the instructor's cost. Like that's all. Yes, yes. As my friend Aaron Hague would say that, you know, reverse engineering price pricing based on like your desired profit, expenses, value, etc. it's using math, right? But you don't just use math to add up those primary things, you've got to add in your profit.

Shannon Jamail 00:12:49  And what your profit is, is so much more than the time you spend at retreat. It's so much bigger than that. It is your experience, your education, like everything that makes you who you are. Okay, so yes, use math, venue, food, all the expenses. And listen y'all, there's so many more expenses than venue food and goodie bags and like, there's so much to it. Are you adding your Canva cost? Are you adding credit card fees? Are you adding any, marketing, your own travel fees, gas, parking, whatever it is like? There's so much more to it. So make sure you have a budget sheet, but use math. Add in your profit. Also, add in what you would pay yourself at a retreat that's part of the payroll. So you're kind of getting paid twice, but really not. So you're getting paid payroll for working the retreat, just like you would pay some other person who's like in charge, like a manager, Right? Then you're also building in the profit.

Shannon Jamail 00:13:47  The profit is what goes back into the business typically. Right. I love this. This is definitely straight from my friend Aaron Haig. I've never described it like this before, but it's described perfectly that way. And so there's so much that gets put into that price of the retreat. You really have to sit down, do the math, put it on a spreadsheet, map it out. Exactly. And then the numbers don't lie. And then you get an idea of what you should charge at that point. And here's what I also say. We get a lot of retreat leaders who are like, well, when they're sharing a bed, shouldn't it be half cost? No it shouldn't. Could there be a small discount because they share a bed? Yes. But all the other costs are the same per person, right? And so don't get confused in that. But here's at the end of the day what really needs to happen. You price with confidence. You need to be so confident in what you're offering and the transformation you're promising and the experience you're promising that you feel good when you say, my retreat is $6000 or $2000 or $20,000, like whatever it is, you need to feel so good.

Shannon Jamail 00:14:53  And if it doesn't excite you at that rate that you have, then it's too low. It's too low. It needs to excite you. You need to be like, yes, I am so excited to do this retreat. I'm so excited to serve the people that show up here. I cannot wait to take them through this experience and this transformation, because profit and money has an energetic exchange too. So you need to be excited. Hopefully that helps a little bit. All right, next question. How do I market my retreat without sounding salesy my husband would say sales is a noble job, damn it. And it is. There's you know, there's just such a stigma around sales. But here's the truth. If you're not selling, you are not going to get the maximum return in your business. You cannot rely on marketing alone. By the way, there are two different things, Okay. You need to be selling. Marketing is attracting. Selling is closing. Okay? When it comes to selling, you sell with a story.

Shannon Jamail 00:15:52  The value, the transformation. Not three nights in a luxury hotel. Yoga every day. Chef prepared meals. That's not it, y'all. That's not it. What's the story? What's the value? What's the transformation? And you use a combination of social proof, behind the scenes, all that stuff. But here's the real thing. You need to ask for the sell. I know, but let's let's imagine you've put together this incredible experience and a client that you've worked with in some other capacity, maybe coaching or something, somebody that, you know, you know, if they went on this retreat, it would change their life. Like you feel that. Call them, send them a video message, send them a voice memo and say, hey, Shannon, I just created this retreat that I'm so excited about and you came to mind and I think you would get so much value out of it. Can I share some details or set up a call to talk to you about it that's selling. You send out a newsletter.

Shannon Jamail 00:16:49  People click on the link to find out information about your retreat. You reach out to each person that clicked on the link that's selling. So if you're not selling and you're only marketing, you are missing a ton of opportunity. I'll just leave it at that. Okay. Next one. How do I make sure my retreat actually makes a profit? I think we covered a lot of this already, but I think what I can say to this is budget meticulously. Budget meticulously. You would be shocked at the expenses that come up that you weren't prepared for, because not only should you budget meticulously, but you also want to add a cushion. On top of that, one of the members in my Retreat leader membership program was asking the other day about what they should do with food costs because the retreat is in a year from now, but the prices that they're getting today may not be the exact food cost. Right? And I'm like, you're right, there should be a cushion. The only thing that's completely locked in it should be completely locked in is your venue, because that's contracted.

Shannon Jamail 00:17:54  Now, if you've contracted with a chef and they have put their own cushion into their prices because food, let's just be honest, food has been skyrocketing all over the place. Then you have a contracted price in there, but usually in a chefs contract it will have some wiggle room because the cost of goods could change. So budget, budget and then add a cushion. That's super important. The other thing that you can do and consider is what are you going to sale sell at your retreat? Like how are you going to continue this work that you're doing and how can you bring it into your business? Are you going to offer a coaching program, a mastermind program? Are you going to offer products themselves. Like what could you offer on your retreat that continues this relationship? are you ready to sell your next retreat on this retreat? Let me tell you something. When we are there at the retreat, like, okay, an example, this conference that I just left, I'm like, how can I sign up for the next one right now? Like, I want to sign up for the next one right now.

Shannon Jamail 00:19:04  So when they are there at your retreat, feeling these amazing vibes, there's so just transformed. Ideally, that's when you can offer them how to continue the relationship and add more profit into your business as well. It is a double serving stone your because yes, you are building more profit. You're building more business by offering this and it's not dirty and it's not yucky because they are also going to get something incredible out of it. So sell on your retreats. Hey, guys, I'm cutting in real quick to ask a favor, will you please share this show with someone who you think could benefit from it? That really helps us to get amazing guests on the show. Also, if you haven't already, subscribe and leave us a review, please! It really helps us to continue to grow for you.

Shannon Jamail 00:20:00  Okay, next question. What contracts or legal protections do I need in place? So this I definitely have at least two podcasts that have been recorded about this. I'm not going to spend much time on this.

Shannon Jamail 00:20:11  you at the end of the day, you have to have clear agreements with your venue and any contractors that you work with. You have to have participant waivers, you have to have cancellation policies. You have to have terms of service. You have to have insurance. So these are just the basics okay. And there's so much more detail of those things in some other podcasts as well as my blog. Okay. Next question. What happens if I don't sell enough spots? Do I cancel pivot. Push harder. Ooh, this is yummy. So here's what I will offer. Aaron Haig has a great course out there. And, yes, me and Aaron, I just adore her and the work that she does, which is why I talk about her and her products and her services, because I believe in them. And so she has a retreat resuscitation masterclass, I believe. So go look that up or I will have it linked in the show notes. It is awesome. but the first thing I will tell you is don't panic.

Shannon Jamail 00:21:05  Assess your timing. Are you too early or are you too quiet? Here's something that I see all the time. All the time. I actually just experienced a retreat host who has a very big social following, and really just assumed that her social following would fail her retreat, and she canceled on us at the venue because it didn't fill. And when I look back, I think in A34 month period, She mentioned it three times. And and and on top of that, we gave leads to her because we get leads through our website all the time. And we would find out from the leads that she wouldn't call them for 3 or 4 days, and we'd have to remind her to call them. So are you too quiet? Are you visible enough? Are you working on your retreat every single day with excitement, with confidence, so that that is felt through everything that you do. So I'm just going to leave it at that, because I feel like you have to answer those questions before you make any other decisions.

Shannon Jamail 00:22:11  You can't make a decision to cancel or pivot or whatever if you're not even showing up and being consistent. I can tell you this I've not seen yet a host who shows up daily with joy and excitement about their retreat and not get the response or the sign ups that they wanted. I haven't. Not. Not ever. So that's what you really need to ask yourself. okay, next question. How can I stand out in a saturated retreat market? Ooh, yes. So you all know how I've been doing this for almost 15 years. I joke around with some of the OGs that when I was doing it, I literally could spend like $50 on Facebook because that's all there was, was Facebook, and there was a couple of platforms, book retreats and book yoga retreats that were at that time worked really great. And I was like, bam, bam, bam, easy. It's not like that today. Okay. there are a lot more hosts out there, and I'm glad of that. And I want you to be successful.

Shannon Jamail 00:23:13  That's why I do a podcast for free is to help retreat leaders be successful. But now, especially more than ever, you have to stand out by being specific. You have to niche down. You have to know exactly who you're going to serve in a very specific niche. You cannot. You cannot just put out a women's wellness retreat. Not unless you're only selling to your community and your studio, or your people only. And then they're going for you're engaged and they're going to sign up. Fine. But then you probably wouldn't be listening to this. You wouldn't have any issues. You know, building a retreat, you're just focusing on your community and serving your community only, and you're done. But if you're wanting to fill your retreat with, sure, your community, but outside your community as well and in general have a sustainable, long lasting business. You have to be specific. You have to be super niched. And I mean as specific as you can. Right? And then the other thing is getting visible, which I just talked about in the previous answer.

Shannon Jamail 00:24:22  You have to be visible every single day. And listen, I just wrote a blog about this. Do not do not this. Listen, I'll get mad right now and I will cuss. And I'm trying not to. But do not tell me you don't have time because I call bullshit. Look at your phone and look at your screen time on there. How often or how much screen time usage you were on your phone. And then tell me you don't have time. Bullshit. You have time to show up every day. It takes 15 20 minutes to show up every day and market and sell every day. So you need to be specific and you need to get visible and be consistent. Okay. Very passionate about this you guys. All right. Next one. Should I co-lead with someone or go solo? Okay, so I have like mixed thoughts on this, especially because I, I've, I've done both. Obviously I don't co-host anymore, really. But, so let's just talk about it. Co-hosts and co-leads can be amazing.

Shannon Jamail 00:25:26  Or they could be a disaster. Just being honest. You really need to pick someone who complements compliments your energy and your audience. And I can't stress this enough. You have to have super clear roles, responsibilities, income, splits, everything. how it would end if it had to end. Like all everything you can think of in writing. And honestly, you need to have a lawyer write it up. And this means even if it's your best friend, I cannot tell you how important this is. I cannot tell you and in my opinion, only really co-lead with someone if you feel like it enhances the experience for guests and simplifies things for you. If it doesn't do those two things both. Do it on your own. That's just. I'm just going to leave it at that. And my members, they know all the ins and outs and and you get lots and lots of support in that area. But they can be amazing or they can be disastrous. And you really have to put some things in place to make it work.

Shannon Jamail 00:26:23  Right. So okay, how do I handle unexpected issues on retreat like weather, illness, etc. without losing my mind? So, plan for B and then C and D. You always want to have a contingency plan in place, especially when it comes to activities. If they're outdoor activities, I don't even care where you are. You still have to plan for a plan B when it comes to those types of things. But here's the real thing. The first thing is to stay calm. Like whatever's happening. Stay calm. I have had guests fight with each other. I've had a guest pull a knife on my chef. I have had, guest get way, way intoxicated that we've had to physically move them. I had a guest, actually, a teacher, get arrested for a DUI and disappeared from the ranch. I have had so many things. I have had someone have a complete anxiety attack after they did a cold plunge. I have had all kinds of things happen on retreats. They are going to happen.

Shannon Jamail 00:27:28  They're going to happen. And you need to be calm, kind and and honest. Honest. Like you don't want to hide that something has happened. You don't want to hide. You know that something went wrong and you want to be super clear. Hey, guys, it's supposed to rain tomorrow. We were supposed to have this incredible outdoor activity, but we're going to pivot. Just kind of like in life and life. We plan for one thing and something else happens. So this is a great time to practice. How do we pivot. And so being calm kind honest and and try your best to plan for all these different things. If someone gets sick on your retreat what are your resources? Where's the nearest urgent care? Where's the nearest hospital? Is there a doctor that can come to the site? Just plan try to walk through all the different things that could go wrong. You won't walk through all of them. Nobody walks through when a guest pulls a knife on your chef like you just.

Shannon Jamail 00:28:23  You can't walk through all of them. you do the best you can, staying calm and kind, and you learn from it because that's really what happens and you get stronger from it. So there you go. Okay. Last one. How do I keep the momentum going after the retreat ends? This is awesome. This is great. Some of it is what I've already offered, where you could sell some continuing programs at your retreat, which I think is just absolutely fabulous, right? But the other thing is like following up with photos and reflections, integration prompts, offering those next steps. Like I talked about celebrating successes, gathering testimonials, start planning seats for your next retreat. Create a Facebook group for alumni. like just continuing the community feel with your group, I think is important. Some of the things that I do for my alumni is we have an alumni Facebook group, and I also send out birthday wishes to every single one of the guests that have been on my retreats. We have an alumni only retreat every couple of years.

Shannon Jamail 00:29:26  I'm constantly engaging in the Facebook group because I genuinely want to be engaged with the community, and so just finding ways to stay engaged with your community, how can you continue to serve them? What other programs and options do you have for them and retreats you might have in the future? So all right, guys, if this was helpful, please let me know. Also, would you please share the show either whether it's on YouTube or on your favorite podcast app? Will you share it with somebody else who you think might benefit from this? And if you haven't, please go. Leave us a review and subscribe. It really, really means the world to me. I so appreciate each and every one of you guys. Thanks so much. Thanks for tuning in to the Retreat Leader's podcast. If you love this episode, please make sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your retreat besties! Want more support? Grab free resources at the Retreat Leader's playbook. Until next time. Lee. Boldly serve deeply and retreat profitably.

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with Amity Cooper, a licensed mental health professional turned ranch retreat host in Colorado. Together, they dive into the world of nature-based retreats, horse-led healing, and the business foundation every retreat leader needs to succeed.

Amity shares her transition from private practice to owning and operating two stunning ranches—1890 Ranch and Wayfinding Ranch—spanning 80 acres. With a clear North Star guiding her work, Amity emphasizes that profitable, sustainable retreats start with purpose. They unpack what it means to align your retreat business with your life goals, why planning 12+ months out is crucial, and the behind-the-scenes systems needed to avoid burnout and cancellations.

Whether you're a venue owner or aspiring retreat host, this conversation is a must-listen for those wanting to build impactful and intentional retreats.

Connect with Amity: www.the1890ranch.com  https://wayfindingranch.com/ 

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

-----------

Introduction & Guest Welcome (00:00:02)
Shannon introduces the podcast, herself, and welcomes guest Amity Cooper, highlighting their similarities as venue owners.

Amity’s Background & Ranch Story (00:01:46)
Amity shares her journey from mental health professional to ranch and venue owner, and her motivation for creating retreat spaces.

Is Hosting Retreats Right for You? (00:03:21)
Discussion on evaluating if hosting retreats aligns with your lifestyle, goals, and business vision.

Finding Your North Star & Why (00:04:18)
Importance of identifying your purpose and motivation before starting a retreat business.

Retreats as a Business, Not a Hobby (00:07:07)
Emphasizing that retreats are a serious business venture requiring a clear purpose and resilience through challenges.

Pitfalls of Poor Planning (00:08:30)
Warning against casually throwing together retreats without a clear plan or purpose.

Vision vs. Implementation: Roles & Systems (00:09:31)
Clarifying the need for systems, clear roles, and balancing vision with practical implementation.

The Importance of a Business Plan (00:10:15)
Stressing the necessity of a detailed business plan for each retreat, including logistics, budget, and marketing.

Venue Owner Perspective: Spotting Unprepared Hosts (00:11:35)
How venue owners can quickly identify hosts who lack planning and the importance of mutual fit.

Booking Timelines & Commitment (00:13:19)
Why venues require advance bookings and the risks of last-minute cancellations for both parties.

Preparation vs. Spontaneity in Retreat Planning (00:14:56)
Contrasting well-prepared hosts with those who approach retreats impulsively, and the consequences of each.

Recommended Planning Timeline (00:16:06)
Advice to start planning retreats at least a year in advance, with venue outreach 9-12 months before the event.

Marketing & Booking Windows (00:18:06)
Guidance on when to begin marketing and booking, emphasizing the need for early and thorough preparation.

Learning Before Leading: Work Exchanges & Attending Retreats (00:19:49)
Encouragement to gain experience by working or attending retreats before hosting your own.

Amity’s Ranch Offerings (00:21:06)
Amity describes her two ranch properties, their features, and the types of events they host.

Closing & Resources (00:23:59)
Shannon thanks Amity, recaps key takeaways, and shares where to find more resources and information.

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Mark and Lana from Blisstopia Retreats to talk about what it really takes to co-facilitate powerful retreats—and build a business together without losing your minds (or your marriage).

Mark and Lana share their journey from psychotherapy and martial arts to running over 60 retreats and living on-site at their stunning Arizona retreat villa. With over 7,000 sq ft of curated wellness space, they've built a business based on balance, service, and transformation.

You’ll hear:

• Why co-leading retreats is a dance of trust, clarity, and communication
• The pros and cons of living at your retreat property
• What makes a retreat center host different from a vacation rental owner
• Tips for thriving in a saturated retreat market
• A special offer just for podcast listeners

Mention this episode and get $500 off a 3-day retreat rental at Blisstopia Retreats!

Whether you host retreats solo, with a team, or dream of running your own retreat center, this convo will give you a behind-the-scenes look at how to lead with heart and strategy.

Connect with Mark and Lana: https://www.blisstopiaretreats.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

------------------Timestamps:
Introduction (00:00:00) Overview of the podcast’s focus on retreat leadership, guest experiences, and marketing secrets.
Introducing the Guests: Mark & Loni (00:00:25) Host introduces Mark and Loni, a couple running a retreat business together.
Loni’s Background & Entrepreneurial Journey (00:01:48) Loni shares her psychotherapy, wellness, and entrepreneurial background, and how she met Mark.
Mark’s Background & Transition to Retreats (00:03:28) Mark discusses his martial arts and coaching background, and their shift to retreats after the pandemic.
Deciding to Open a Retreat Center (00:04:18) The couple describes the decision to sell everything and open a retreat center in Arizona.
Transition to Co-Facilitating Retreats (00:05:21) Discussion on how they began co-facilitating retreats and integrating their skills.
Why Retreats Over Other Wellness Businesses (00:05:56) Explaining the deeper impact of retreats compared to fitness or yoga classes.
Mark’s Growth & Their Yin-Yang Dynamic (00:06:57) Mark’s journey into yoga and breathwork, and the couple’s complementary energies.
Choosing & Setting Up Their Retreat Property (00:08:40) How they selected, purchased, and set up their Arizona retreat property.
Hosting Other Facilitators at Their Space (00:11:37) They welcome other retreat hosts and describe the support they provide.

On-Site Support & Services for Retreat Hosts (00:12:04) Details about their on-site help, meal services, and understanding retreat logistics.
Host’s London Event Promo (00:13:00) Brief promotion for the host’s upcoming retreat mastermind event in London.
Why Retreat Centers Are Preferred (00:13:41) Host explains the advantages of retreat centers over Airbnb/Vrbo for hosting retreats.
Challenges of Building & Planning as a Couple (00:14:55) Discussion about the challenges of planning and building a retreat space together.
Staying in Their Lanes & Defining Roles (00:15:19) How they maintain boundaries, respect, and trust by sticking to their strengths.
Industry Struggles & Oversaturation (00:17:06) Mark discusses industry oversaturation and the challenges of inexperienced hosts.
Struggles of Working as a Couple (00:19:03) The couple shares the realities of being together constantly and how they communicate.
Industry Growth & Differentiation (00:20:20) Host reflects on industry growth, competition, and the importance of differentiation.
Staying in Lanes: Host’s Personal Experience (00:24:29) Host shares her own experience working with her husband and the importance of defined roles.
Living On-Site: Pros & Cons (00:26:32) Discussion about the benefits and challenges of living at the retreat property.
Nature, Animals, and Sanctuary Vibes (00:27:10) Description of the property’s natural setting, animals, and peaceful atmosphere.
Being On-Site for Emergencies & Support (00:29:42) Anecdote about stepping in for a retreat host in need and the value of being on-site.
Host’s Perspective: Never Shutting Off (00:30:54) Host discusses the difficulty of separating work and home life when living on-site.

Mark’s Family Resort Experience (00:33:12) Mark relates his experience growing up around a family-run resort.
Constant Upkeep & Business Mindset (00:34:07) The ongoing nature of property maintenance and always being in business mode.
Special Offer for Listeners (00:35:20) Mark and Loni offer $500 off venue rental for podcast listeners.

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Mark and Lana from Blisstopia Retreats to talk about what it really takes to co-facilitate powerful retreats—and build a business together without losing your minds (or your marriage).

Mark and Lana share their journey from psychotherapy and martial arts to running over 60 retreats and living on-site at their stunning Arizona retreat villa. With over 7,000 sq ft of curated wellness space, they've built a business based on balance, service, and transformation.

You’ll hear:

• Why co-leading retreats is a dance of trust, clarity, and communication
• The pros and cons of living at your retreat property
• What makes a retreat center host different from a vacation rental owner
• Tips for thriving in a saturated retreat market
• A special offer just for podcast listeners

Mention this episode and get $500 off a 3-day retreat rental at Blisstopia Retreats!

Whether you host retreats solo, with a team, or dream of running your own retreat center, this convo will give you a behind-the-scenes look at how to lead with heart and strategy.

Connect with Mark and Lana: https://www.blisstopiaretreats.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

----------------- Timestamps:

Introducing the Guests: Mark & Loni (00:00:25) Host introduces Mark and Loni, a couple running a retreat business together. Loni’s Background & Entrepreneurial Journey (00:01:48) Loni shares her psychotherapy, wellness, and entrepreneurial background, and how she met Mark.

Mark’s Background & Transition to Retreats (00:03:28) Mark discusses his martial arts and coaching background, and their shift to retreats after the pandemic. Deciding to Open a Retreat Center (00:04:18) The couple describes the decision to sell everything and open a retreat center in Arizona.

Transition to Co-Facilitating Retreats (00:05:21) Discussion on how they began co-facilitating retreats and integrating their skills.

Why Retreats Over Other Wellness Businesses (00:05:56) Explaining the deeper impact of retreats compared to fitness or yoga classes.

Mark’s Growth & Their Yin-Yang Dynamic (00:06:57) Mark’s journey into yoga and breathwork, and the couple’s complementary energies.

Choosing & Setting Up Their Retreat Property (00:08:40) How they selected, purchased, and set up their Arizona retreat property.

Hosting Other Facilitators at Their Space (00:11:37) They welcome other retreat hosts and describe the support they provide.

On-Site Support & Services for Retreat Hosts (00:12:04) Details about their on-site help, meal services, and understanding retreat logistics.

Host’s London Event Promo (00:13:00) Brief promotion for the host’s upcoming retreat mastermind event in London.

Why Retreat Centers Are Preferred (00:13:41) Host explains the advantages of retreat centers over Airbnb/Vrbo for hosting retreats.

Challenges of Building & Planning as a Couple (00:14:55) Discussion about the challenges of planning and building a retreat space together.

Staying in Their Lanes & Defining Roles (00:15:19) How they maintain boundaries, respect, and trust by sticking to their strengths.

Industry Struggles & Oversaturation (00:17:06) Mark discusses industry oversaturation and the challenges of inexperienced hosts.

Struggles of Working as a Couple (00:19:03) The couple shares the realities of being together constantly and how they communicate.

Industry Growth & Differentiation (00:20:20) Host reflects on industry growth, competition, and the importance of differentiation.

Staying in Lanes: Host’s Personal Experience (00:24:29) Host shares her own experience working with her husband and the importance of defined roles.

Living On-Site: Pros & Cons (00:26:32) Discussion about the benefits and challenges of living at the retreat property.

Nature, Animals, and Sanctuary Vibes (00:27:10) Description of the property’s natural setting, animals, and peaceful atmosphere.

Being On-Site for Emergencies & Support (00:29:42) Anecdote about stepping in for a retreat host in need and the value of being on-site.

Host’s Perspective: Never Shutting Off (00:30:54) Host discusses the difficulty of separating work and home life when living on-site.

Mark’s Family Resort Experience (00:33:12) Mark relates his experience growing up around a family-run resort.

Constant Upkeep & Business Mindset (00:34:07) The ongoing nature of property maintenance and always being in business mode.

Special Offer for Listeners (00:35:20) Mark and Loni offer $500 off venue rental for podcast listeners. 

Your brand is more than a logo—it's the energy, clarity, and trust that sells out your retreats before you even open registration.

In this episode, Shannon sits down with Kara Hollinger, founder and creative director of Made Outside, to explore how powerful branding and a cohesive online presence directly influence retreat success.

They dig into:

• Why authenticity is your brand’s biggest asset
• How storytelling builds trust and drives bookings
• Common branding mistakes retreat leaders make
• Aligning your website, social media, and messaging to serve your ideal client
• How to communicate your value so people are ready to buy

Kara also shares a 20% discount on branding packages exclusively for podcast listeners—don’t

Connect with Kara: www.madeoutside.com
Talk about this podcast and get 20% off

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Apply to be a guest on our show

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

----------

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders podcast at Shannon. And today I've got an amazing guest on the show that I am so excited to dig into our topic today because I feel like if it wasn't already so very important, it's becoming more and more important every day in the business world that we live in. So welcome, Kara to the show.

Kara 00:00:46  Thank you for having me, Shannon. Excited to be here.

Shannon 00:00:49  I'm so excited you're here. So Kara Hollinger is on the show. And do you just want to take a moment to tell us, like, who you are? What brought you here? Like, talk to us about who you are.

Kara 00:00:59  Definitely. My background is in brand development and design as well as strategy, and I started Made outside. I'm the founder and we specialize in building brands with authenticity, transparency and trust so that the consumer will lean into that purpose and story and then choose you over another competitor. So in most cases, that level of authenticity and storytelling is what drives a consumer into the purchasing ability. And so through design and award winning design, I was able to actually take my intuition and my understanding of marketability and then design and merge that with design, which has been a really great outcome for our clients. And I'm a big supporter of wellness and retreats and leadership. And I think that combining brand purpose into, you know, whether it's a retreat or a leader or even a brand is the key to success in today's market, where it's very convoluted, it's hard to tell who's authentic or who isn't. And that's what we do for all of our clients. And we've had really great success.

Shannon 00:02:06  I love this. Okay, so I love this for so many reasons, but especially because just like you mentioned, like if you are not presenting yourself in an authentic but also appealing way specifically to your demographic, then you are missing the boat.

Shannon 00:02:24  And I know that a lot of things that you work on is brand strategy and social media presence, as well as website presence. And I think, I think it gets really underrated in the retreat world. I think people just put together a very, in my very humble opinion, a crappy landing page that has maybe a couple of pictures that do not look as good as they should look. and it's just, I mean, I see more and more of them and I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, there's an investment that has to be made in this business if you are wanting to it to be a business. And everybody knows that I'm big on like I, I don't do retreats for a hobby. I don't teach people how to do retreats for hobby. I teach you to do it as a business. And part of business in this world is investing in your social media and your website presence and brand strategy. Because I feel like it's got to tell a story. All of this has to tell a story.

Kara 00:03:16  Definitely. And the world of templated websites and put something up with, you know, Squarespace or Wix. Those types of solutions do exist, and they can be successful, but only if they're brought into authenticity and something that's unique for you. Because if we all land on something that feels the same or doesn't feel authentic or is just another batch of stock photos, it's going to be really hard to get somebody to invest their time and money to stop what they're doing, fly and try. They're seeking something to go to a retreat they're seeking. And if you can't collectively tell them what they're going to get in a way that feels safe and authentic, then they're going to start to look elsewhere, or they're going to start to overthink the decision and then possibly not juju at all. So getting to the heart of what makes you different and why you started the retreat, or why this solution is going to be good for the person coming. That is the key to all of it. And you can do that.

Kara 00:04:10  So simply with just words and visuals, it doesn't have to be a whole big investment. It's really about how you tell that story and then making sure it doesn't look like everyone else that you're seeing out there.

Shannon 00:04:22  I couldn't agree more. So I the way I do my retreat bookings is probably a little different than some people. As far as they don't have to talk to me, they don't have to set an appointment with me. They don't have to be pre-screened by me. I just don't run those types of retreats. There are a there's a time and place for that. But I share that with you because people who don't know me at all are literally. I mean, I'll get on my my registration forms. Where did you find me? Google. So they're finding me and they're booking because of my landing page, because of my messaging, because of my image, because of the story, because of how I'm marketing them. And so that's the bulk of my registrations, or pretty close to 6,570%.

Shannon 00:05:00  The other 25 to 30% is coming from referral or repeat guest. Or they've been listening to me and following me a long time, whatever. But the bulk of my my retreats are registrations are coming because of how my messaging is reaching them and the way that it's presented. And so when I tell you this is so important, I mean, this is so important. And even if you are someone, a host who, you know, you want to interview them first, they have to apply, they have to whatever. It's still the same thing. They're not even going to fill up that form to set an appointment with you if your messaging doesn't resonate, if it looks like, you know, a junior high schooler, put the whole thing together. You know what I mean? And I see this a lot in the retreat space where it's like, I don't know why my retreats not filling. I'm like, well, we're just going to start here. There's probably a whole lot of other stuff going on.

Shannon 00:05:50  But also we're going to start right here. And I love that you talked about trust and authenticity Because I think you and I both know we live in the world now, where if we hear about a company or an organization or anybody we're going to give our money to, where's the first place we look? Nowadays it's social media. You know what I mean? Yes, it's their website, but we usually are on their website, and then we go find them on social media to really validate who they are. What are your thoughts on that.

Kara 00:06:17  100% and the consistency between both stops, as well as how you email or solicit, has to be consistent and equally as professional. So somebody reached out to me recently and I thought it was very engaging. But then I went and found them on social and it was filled with stuff that was not authentic. It was really sloppy and done by I, and I immediately bounced. And so that originality is as important and the sales not going to come through just your site.

Kara 00:06:45  It is through learning and engaging as well as social hearing, trust building and the social aspect has to reassure them that where they're coming, It's not just safe. Like, am I going to get hurt? But it's safe. Like I'm making the right investment. And is this what I'm looking for? Because when people are out there seeking these types of scenarios, they're actually looking to either feel better, find vision, reset, meet people. a lot of it's around feeling better, but it could be a series of just letting go. It could be. But if you don't show up and understand what you signed up for, or if what you see online is actually authentic to the experience you're going to get when you show up, it's that validation on social that actually confirms a sale. So 100%, and just so everybody knows, a brand is not a logo. A brand is how you show up as a company or as a person in every aspect the photography, your voice, your social, how you, send them the materials to get ready for the retreat, to how you answer the phone.

Kara 00:07:53  It's all important. And that brand as a whole needs to look and feel the same across all platforms. And if it doesn't, it doesn't have to be custom. With a big, huge website. It could be a simple website, but the visuals and the storytelling needs to be simple and consistent across all touchpoints.

Shannon 00:08:11  Oh, okay, now you're really talking my language because it's not just a one stop. It's not just the website, although that typically is. The starting point is sometimes it might be the social. That's the starting point, but they're quickly going to make their way to the website. They're going to make their way to both. Right. Period. It's 100%. So yeah. So there's multiple touch points. And then also the communication right away. Like if they make contact with you, what does that communication look like when they register. The whole process is part of your brand. And I'm so glad that you are clarifying that it's not a logo. I can't tell you how many times people get caught up in my in what my logo is.

Shannon 00:08:40  That's everything. Listen, it's a very small. Believe it or not, part of the picture, right?

Kara 00:08:45  It's like one pillar of your body, you know, it's like it's a small piece of the thing. And it's important that it resonates too. But people aren't going to hire you because of your logo. They're going to hire you because of how you feel. And if you have that element of attraction or law of attraction that bring you in, that is 100% aligned on every touchpoint. Because if it's really cool here, then they go somewhere else and they're getting a different experience. You automatically lost trust and that's why the consistency is key.

Shannon 00:09:14  Yeah I so agree. So I love this. So we're talking about that. Your website has a look and feel and verbiage and energy to it. So should your social media match. So should your emails show. So should all. Everything should match that look and feel and energy that you are trying to create. And I think sometimes we don't know what that even is or how it should look.

Shannon 00:09:37  Unless we work with someone like you or an organization that can help us see that. Because sometimes we just get caught up in the logo or, you know, whatever it is. And we're thinking, I'm going to just do this on Canva. I'm going to create a logo, pick a couple colors, and then I'm done.

Kara 00:09:53  Exactly. And I am a big believer in Canva and we use it. We personally don't use it. We set our clients up with Canva templates. Once we're done doing our job so that that consistency piece is key. And you have to think of it as, how you meet anybody. Like you're going to go and say, hi, my name is Karen. Wait outside. But that's not enough. Like, you need to speak of who you are and why you're different in order to get attention. And it's the same for your brand. So like, just because I people like my dress and I dress very simple today, but say that was a compliment. They're not going to hire me because of my dress, they're going to hire me because of the whole picture.

Kara 00:10:32  And that's why that logo is it's important that it doesn't, you know, it's legible, it's attractive. It doesn't feel dated, it doesn't feel too trendy. Like those are things that we need to look for for the logo. But that is like third of importance as to the whole picture. And that consistency and transparency is really reigning above the way the logo looks and what your color palette is. And I get asked a lot of times. Like we just see the logo on an updated color palette and I'm like, okay, but then you're going to need these things. And so we have to coach them on. When they put that new logo somewhere, it's not going to spike sales. It's not going to spike the call. What's going to spike that? Is that again I hear you I feel you I see you. That is the piece that is the component that you want to reach your consumers. And if you can figure out how to word that and how to make it feel like that through your brand, your sales will increase and you will get stickier.

Kara 00:11:27  And they not only will love it, but then they're going to come and they're going to get the experience. They expected it, and they're going to go home and tell the people, and then they're also going to share it on social. So that viral ness is important in that first step.

Shannon 00:11:39  Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yes. Okay, so I love this because a lot of retreat leaders don't know how to word it.

Shannon 00:12:25  They don't. They don't know how to position it. They're like, well, here's here's they hopefully know who they can serve, right? Who their ideal guest is. Hopefully they know that and they know the problem that they can solve or solve for that person, but then they don't know where to go from there. And is that something that you and your group does that they can help?

Kara 00:12:42  Conditioning is is everything, to be honest. and we really want that to be stable and established and and Attractive before the visuals ever get involved. because that like, you need to think of not what you like, not your personal style and your personal preference. You need to think of what the person you're wanting to show up needs and what they need to see and feel. And again, you got to know the emotion. Every retreats different. Some are more fitness, some are more wellness, some are more mental health, some are more silent. You know, relaxation. But what are what is their pain point? And then the moment you can position yourself to build trust and authenticity around their pain point, that's the position is like what you do, how you do it and why you're different.

Kara 00:13:29  And then if you can say that in a way that's compelling and interesting and attractive, it's, it's a it's a home run, because then all of the visuals back that up. And so then that's why the logo is, is like a piece of it. It's all the messaging and all the little graphics and all the things that really instill and insinuate what it is that makes you different is how that brand look and feel. And consistency starts to build. Because if you just start creating pretty things, you're going to, again, blend in, because there's a lot of pretty things out there. But what you need to do is, is match that message with how it's going to feel. And then the visuals come into play. And I mean, I'm an award winning designer. So for years I thought design was everything. And then as I started to own my own businesses and help thousands of businesses, I realized the positioning and the strategy behind how you're going out and getting the business is the success component.

Kara 00:14:21  And then the visuals, I mean, it's it's really amazing once you have that positioning, right, how far the visuals take off and how easy it is, it's like there's no overthinking. You're just doing because you have a North Star that you're following, and then that North Star is solving the pain point and the problem of who you're trying to attract in.

Shannon 00:14:41  Yes, I really do believe I mean, I with all, every fiber of my being, I believe one of the biggest struggles for retreat leaders is this it's their marketing message. It's there. It's their brand. It's the look and feel of what they're trying to communicate. And. And I feel like they struggle the most with this. And this is where they get the most stuck. And they just put something together and then wonder why it's not working. And so please hear me when I say this for my listeners. Like, this is where you are stuck. I, I promise this is probably where you're stuck and you're thinking you're not getting sales because of your price, or you're thinking you're not getting sales because of the location or whatever.

Shannon 00:15:21  And it's probably 99.9% of the time. It's the branding, and the messaging is falling flat. It's not reaching who it's supposed to reach. It's not consistent. It's not vibrant. It's not the energy you're trying to create. You're not attracting the people you want to attract because it's just not hitting the mark. So I'm so glad you're talking about it.

Kara 00:15:40  Yeah, 100%. And again, you can go to Squarespace and build a website over a weekend. And and it could be very successful if you have the positioning and an authentic voice and really great visuals. It's not the methodology of how you do it. There's a lot of ways such as Canva, such as AI, to get there, but you have to start with that base of of being different. Like if you look like everyone else, there's nothing to sink your teeth into that makes you stand out. And especially when you start to advertise. Because if you start putting money into that and then you start soliciting people to land, that ad could be the best looking ad ever.

Kara 00:16:20  And it could say, but if they land on your website and then it doesn't feel like that, or you're not answering those questions, they're going to bounce and your bounce rate will be so high because they're going to land on something that doesn't feel safe, authentic, or, you know, matching their pain points. And so that that's why the the visuals kind of come in second or sometimes there.

Shannon 00:16:40  I really do think that you're exactly right. And do you have to hire a professional? Maybe not. But here's where I think the struggle is, is they they don't have the skill set if I'm being honest. They just don't like I have to. I have to partner with someone I don't. Just my skill set is what I deliver at the retreat and what I teach people to do. But when it comes to exact marketing branding strategy, I have to bring in someone else for my own stuff. I can see other people's better than my own stuff, right? It's that's what happens sometimes. and so working with a, an organization or a partner or somebody who knows how to do that, I think is really, really valuable, especially if, as a retreat leader, you're sitting here going, why am I not getting the sales? What is happening? And if you're truly consistently showing up but you're not getting the the traction you think it is almost most likely to do with your branding and your messaging.

Shannon 00:17:33  It's just falling flat.

Kara 00:17:35  100% I agree. And we help people. And one of the things that makes us uniquely different is we will work with what's working and help you with the roadblocks that aren't or the gaps. So it's not like you have to come to us and we have to do it all or we won't work with you. We actually look at what's working and what brand equity you have, and in some cases, there's a lot that's working and we can kind of just come in and we don't Band-Aid. We actually solve it and we look at the problems and then we look out also not where are you now? Where are you going? So everything we're building and creating is actually giving you legs to get to where your ultimate vision is so that you don't have to redo this like the goal of branding. And most of our clients are in ten plus years. Not only are they still coming back to help them grow, but they're not coming back to rebrand. And that is because the level of who they are and what they do is so clear and it's timeless.

Kara 00:18:30  It doesn't feel trendy or attached to something that's popular today. It actually feels, you know, something that could have been five years ago, 20 years from now. It just feels safe and seen. And that is another key to this whole thing, is to stay far away from very heavy trends, because it will make you go through this process again and again.

Shannon 00:18:52  Yes, yes. Gosh, I so agree with that. Well, Miss Kara, if somebody wanted to work with you, do you have something special for them? I think you mentioned.

Kara 00:19:01  I did earlier. You're offering 20% to anybody that finds us through this podcast. We have lots of packages everywhere, from positioning to visuals to positioning, visuals and a website. We can do them in an intensive process as quick as a week or two, or we can spread it out and do a larger scale project that can take a couple of months. But we understand that these types of projects are kind of hot and they're ready to go. So we have figured out ways for us to build packages specific to retreats and wellness groups.

Kara 00:19:33  That can happen as fast as you guys need us to. And we do that hands on one on one. And we have a really specific staff that helps and handles these types of clients. And I am the creative director, founder leader of made and you will work with me individually, and then my staff helps execute all the way to the end. And I am with the project from the beginning to the end. So that's another thing that differentiates us. And we are offering 20% off of any package. If you find us through this podcast.

Shannon 00:20:03  Awesome! Well, her website is made outside, but it will also be in the show notes, so I highly, highly recommend that you take her up on this offer because more than likely, if you are not hitting where you are wanting to hit, it has something to do with your branding, marketing strategy and your messaging and where it's falling flat. So Kara, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.

Kara 00:20:27  Absolutely, Shannon, thank you for having me.

Kara 00:20:29  And I look forward to helping all of your guests.

Shannon 00:20:33  Thanks for listening to the Retreat Leaders podcast. Learn more at the retreat. See you next time.