Uncensored CMO

Craig Brommers, CMO of American Eagle, joins us to go behind the scenes of one of the most talked-about campaigns of the year; Sydney Sweeney for American Eagle. Craig reveals what really happened, why the brand partnered with Sydney, and how they handled the extreme social-media reaction. We discuss the data behind the campaign’s success, the decision to pause before responding, and what the advertising press got wrong. Craig also shares lessons in brand leadership, navigating public scrutiny, and what it takes to be a successful CMO in 2025.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
00:35 - The Travis Kelce x American Eagle collaboration
01:51 - Why American Eagle partnered with Sydney Sweeney
03:21 - Did American Eagle know the campaign was going to explode on social media
04:24 - What caused the extreme reaction to the campaign?
06:08 - The System1 scores for the Sydney Sweeney x American Eagle campaign
08:11 - How did it feel seeing the campaign come under so much scrutiny?
11:50 - Choosing to pause instead of reacting immediately
13:41 - Dealing with the personal side of some of the comments
15:09 - The actual results of the Sydney Sweeney campaign
16:51 - The reaction vs the media buy - what was the impact?
18:11 - When Jon almost closed the London Underground with Amaretto
20:53 - Did the advertising press get it wrong about the American Eagle campaign?
22:14 - Craig’s advice for other marketers facing a crisis
27:15 - Will American Eagle continue to work with Sydney Sweeney?
28:31 - Are we entering a “Jeans Wars” era?
29:40 - The product strategy for American Eagle
30:51 - How important are celebrity endorsements in Fashion
31:45 - What are the elements for success for American Eagle
33:26 - 3 things that make a successful CMO in 2025
39:56 - What does a successful CMO look like?
40:44 - The one thing to remember from this conversation

After an illustrious 37-year career in advertising, legend David Droga is stepping down as CEO of Accenture Song and retiring. Under his leadership, Song grew 8% to $20 billion in FY25, up from $19 billion the previous year. A fitting closing act for one of the industry’s most creative leaders.

In this second conversation with David, we reflect on his career, the lessons he’s learned, and what he would do if he were starting from scratch. From creativity’s place at the heart of business to the power of simple ideas, David shares the philosophies, failures, and insights that have defined his journey.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:02:45 - Lessons from being CEO of Accenture Song
00:06:01 - Why creativity needs to be at the forefront of businesses
00:11:01 - How technology can enable creativity, rather than kill it
00:18:42 - What is David Droga most proud of leaving as his legacy
00:27:40 - What what David Droga do if he were starting from scratch
00:29:59 - What are the traits of David Droga’s favourite clients
00:34:59 - What trends are overrated and underrated according to David Droga
00:40:52 - David Droga ideas that never saw the light of day
00:43:58 - The business that almost came before Droga5
00:46:49 - The size of the idea is 50x more important than the budget
00:48:10 - Droga’s best campaign on a small budget
00:56:31 - Power of building on a campaign platform
01:02:06 - The power of simple ideas
01:07:48 - The most "Aussie" thing Droga has ever done

Richard Shotton, author of The Choice Factory and the newly released Hacking the Human Mind, joins us to explore the behavioural science behind the world’s most iconic brands. From Guinness’ 119.5 second pour to Red Bull’s unconventional rise, Richard explains the psychological shortcuts that drive consumer decisions. We cover why 4-star reviews beat 5-stars, the secret behind Liquid Death’s success, and how humour, jingles, and even “concrete expressions” can help brands stick in our minds.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Start
01:07 - Why Richard is launching a new book
02:54 - Why Guinness takes 119.5 seconds to pour
05:46 - Why a 4 star review is better than a 5 star review
07:50 - Why the Pratfall effect is so powerful
11:00 - Why Aperol Spritz has become so popular
18:18 - The behavioural science behind the Liquid Death success
21:06 - Why consistency works according to behavioural science
27:49 - Why Red Bull succeeds while defying convention
34:15 - The labour illusion; Dyson Example
41:03 - Why does the “You’re Not You When You’re Hungry” strapline work
43:01 - Why we need to use humour more
45:12 - Why has KFC dominated the fried chicken market?
49:41 - The secrets behind the success of Pringles
53:58 - Why jingles stick in our heads
58:23 - How Apple used “Concrete Expressions”

Dame Carolyn McCall OBE is the CEO of ITV, the UK’s biggest commercial broadcaster. She was previously CEO of The Guardian Media Group and easyJet, and currently serves as President of The Marketing Society.

This year marks 70 years of TV advertising, celebrated with the launch of the new report, Living Room Legends, which explores the best ads of the past seven decades.

Dame Carolyn joins Jon to discuss the report, why TV advertising is here to stay, and to reflect on some of the greatest ads of all time.

Timestamps
00:00 – Intro
00:42 – 70 years of advertising
02:11 – Carolyn’s vision for the future of marketing
04:15 – Why we need more marketers on boards
05:25 – How a CMO can become a CEO
08:15 – Overseeing the UK’s biggest commercial broadcaster
11:35 – How ITV is competing with global streaming giants
13:19 – How ITV collaborates with the streaming giants
15:15 – The recipe for a long-term hit TV show
17:37 – Is TV advertising dead?
22:47 – Is TV effective for Gen Z?
24:31 – The Living Room Legends report, celebrating 70 years of advertising
27:08 – The most emotional ad for Carolyn
28:06 – What ads have made Carolyn McCall laugh
29:10 – Advertising campaigns that have changed culture
31:42 – Airing an ad within 72 hours of Christian Eriksen’s cardiac arrest
32:23 – Which campaigns have improved over the years
33:34 – The best examples of romanticising the product
35:13 – Why more SMEs are advertising
35:52 – The future of TV advertising

What separates an ordinary manager from an extraordinary leader? Psychologist, best-selling author, and former NBA player John Amaechi joins us to explore the qualities that define great leadership in today’s world. From self-awareness and vulnerability to empowering others and giving credit, John shares why intimidation fails, how to harness your personal value proposition, and why leaders must keep learning.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:17 - Reflecting on masculinity
00:03:42 - What does “ordinary” actually mean?
00:07:51 - Discovering your personal value proposition
00:09:24 - Going from functional manager to leader
00:15:03 - Misconceptions on leadership
00:17:16 - Is Trump having an effect on how we see leadership?
00:19:22 - Why intimidation is a terrible leadership tactic
00:23:14 - The importance of self awareness as a leader
00:29:56 - Do highly accomplished people lack self assurance?
00:32:58 - The desire to learn and having vulnerability
00:40:37 - The importance of giving people credit
00:44:22 - Accessing your library of experiences
00:51:53 - Reconising our own weaknesses
00:57:03 - The power of empowering others
00:59:41 - Do different generations lead differently?
01:02:49 - How to find time to learn as a leader

What makes a world-class CMO? In this masterclass, we’re joined by Jane Wakely, CMO of PepsiCo, and Neil Barrie, founder of 21st Century Brands, to explore the strategies that drive growth of billion dollar brands. We discuss why CFO partnerships matter, how to reappraise established brands, and why creativity, whether through celebrity campaigns or a giant Cheetos thumb, still drives results. Plus, Jane and Neil share practical lessons on making change happen inside complex organisations.

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:28 - What are the attributes of a successful CMO?
07:57 - Why Neil created the CMO Thrive Guide
10:32 - Surprising things about Neil’s CMO research
12:44 - How Jane approached the first 90 days at PepsiCo
16:27 - The importance of the CFO and CMO relationship
22:22 - How marketers can influence the boardroom
25:44 - Managing over 20 $1b+ brands
27:52 - Navigating the complexity of a huge portfolio
32:25 - How large brands can “Stay Up”
34:49 - Why you should reappraise brands
41:05 - The impact of celebs in advertising
44:45 - Why the Cheetos giant thumb was effective
47:51 - PepsiCo’s involvement in Women’s sport
52:41 - How to make change happen in an organisation

Returning guest and everyone's favourite marketing professor, Mark Ritson, is back. As usual, Mark comes out firing with some no nonsense advice to all marketers. He talks about AI taking over his Mini MBA, leaving Marketing Week, why pricing is the most important P and some rules for creativity. Sit back and soak up the knowledge from Mr Mark Ritson.

Timestamps
00:00 - Intro
01:06 - Why Mark Ritson sold Mini MBA
02:12 - Mark Ritson leaving Marketing Week
04:19 - Jon’s favourite AI use case
08:07 - Will AI take over Mini MBA?
11:38 - What marketers think is different to what customers think
12:58 - Mark Ritson on that Sydney Sweeney ad
16:15 - The Creative Dividend: what makes great marketing in 2025
27:45 - Why marketers need to be involved in the 4 Ps
30:30 - Why pricing is so important (and why marketers should be involved)
38:28 - The absence of strategy and what to do about it
42:38 - What has surprised Mark Ritson most in 2025
43:09 - Why AI is being marketed so poorly
49:58 - The power of synthetic data

Ella Mills is the co-founder of Deliciously Ella, which began in 2012 as a simple blog sharing healthy recipes. What started online quickly grew into bestselling books, a #1 mobile app, and eventually a retail brand of healthy snacks. In 2024, Deliciously Ella was acquired for an undisclosed sum and today Ella is building her next venture, All Plants.

Her journey is inspiring, and in this episode we explore every milestone: from securing her first Starbucks listing, to navigating a failure that nearly sank the business, to proving how an “average” person can create a truly global brand.

Ella's podcast, The Wellness Scoop:
https://open.spotify.com/show/7F6YqGJ06UEuD7qG81tFHw

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:01 - The Deliciously Ella founding story
06:16 - When did the Deliciously Ella blog start to take off
11:22 - Dealing with overnight attention and success
13:33 - How can an average student become so successful?
15:03 - How to nail a successful book launch
17:16 - Scaling a personal brand
21:08 - What’s it like running the business with your husband?
24:00 - Going from recipe blogs to making retail products
24:53 - How Deliciously Ella landed in Starbucks
33:18 - Building out the product range
35:04 - Behind every success is a bunch of failures
41:07 - Managing risk vs return when scaling a startup
45:29 - How to make products that are successful in retail
49:53 - Why Ella took over a new brand after selling Deliciously Ella
52:30 - Where is the plant based market headed?
56:22 - Why Ella started a podcast?

David Gluckman, the man who invented Baileys and author of That S**t Will Never Sell, joins us to share stories from his legendary career in brand creation. From the birth of iconic drinks (including Purdey’s, Aqua Libra, Cîroc and Tanqueray) to lessons on creativity, innovation, and risk-taking, David reflects on what it really takes to bring bold ideas to life.

Timestamps
00:22 - The founding story of Baileys
04:32 - Naming Baileys
12:18 - How Purdey’s and Aqua Libra began
22:48 - Starting Cîroc and Tanqueray
33:26 - Principles of innovation