BE THAT LAWYER

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Belle Walker discuss:

• Why law firms struggle with inefficiencies and miscommunication
• The impact of unclear roles and accountability gaps in law firms
• How legal technology and AI are changing law firm operations
• Why structured processes are essential for business growth and client satisfaction

Key Takeaways:

• Lawyers often assume their team understands their expectations, but without clear and explicit communication, misalignment can lead to inefficiencies, missed deadlines, and frustration for both staff and clients.
• Law firms aiming for maximum efficiency sometimes eliminate too much redundancy, making them less resilient when unexpected challenges arise, so finding the right balance between streamlining and maintaining flexibility is critical.
• Leveraging automation tools and legal technology can significantly reduce manual workload and improve accuracy, but firms must carefully assess their processes and ensure proper adoption to avoid resistance and implementation failures.
• Successfully implementing operational changes in a law firm requires leaders to communicate the ‘why’ behind the change, focusing on goals and benefits rather than simply dictating new processes, which helps secure team buy-in and long-term success.

"Documentation goes a long way, and the lawyers themselves don't need to be the ones doing the documentation." —  Belle Walker

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Perform To Win by Mark Powell & Jonathan Gifford: https://www.amazon.com/Perform-Win-Unlocking-Personal-Business/dp/1910649252

About Belle Walker: Belle Walker, Founder and CEO of Belleview Consulting, takes organizations from Friction to Function, recapturing lost efficiency and engagement for companies across industries. Now the international bestselling author of Generation Innovation and a TEDx speaker, Belle has also built several successful teams for HERE Technology, including one responsible for the quality of maps for autonomous vehicles, and received two patents. Belle’s career began at Google, building a nation-wide aerial photography operation, and she has led numerous different teams since. Belle holds a Mechanical Engineering degree from Harvard and a Systems Engineering master’s from the University of Southern California, where her research studied organizations as systems.

Connect with Belle Walker:  

Website: https://belleviewconsulting.com/

Email: belle@belleviewconsulting.com

Book: Generation Innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Generation-Innovation-Business-Journey-Success/dp/B0CP5RYFKH/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bellekwalker/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/belleview-consulting/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve, Nicola, and Shereen discuss:

• Building strong relationships between in-house and outside counsel
• The importance of business acumen in legal practice
• Networking and business development for lawyers
• Adapting to the evolving legal industry

Key Takeaways:

• Outside counsel should recognize that in-house lawyers often make rapid decisions with limited information and need concise, actionable legal guidance rather than long memos.
• Many lawyers lack business literacy, making it harder for them to align legal advice with corporate goals; in-house counsel appreciate those who can bridge the legal-business gap.
• Instead of just asking for work, outside counsel should offer value by staying informed about the company’s initiatives, supporting their causes, and engaging in genuine conversations.
• In-house counsel prefer different modes of communication (text over email, early breakfast over lunch), and outside counsel should adapt to their client’s preferences to strengthen relationships.

"A lot of times, I took for granted that outside counsel understood how in-house counsel worked, and then one day I realized, ‘Oh, that’s really not the case.’ If they did, it could really elevate not only the relationship but how they connect and how they maintain those relationships." —  Nicola Hobeiche

"If you can’t ask your friends, how are you going to ask strangers?" —  Shereen El Domeiri

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Lawyers Behaving Badly by Karen Delaney and Jennifer Judge: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lawyers-behaving-badly/id1654960102

About Nicola Hobeiche and Shereen El Domeiri: Nicola Hobeiche and Shereen El Domeiri are the co-hosts of the Counsel Brew podcast, where they explore the journeys of legal professionals and beyond. Shereen spent much of her career as government and in-house counsel before transitioning into private practice, bringing a sharp, creative approach to problem-solving. Nicola has spent her entire legal career in-house across various industries, leveraging her global upbringing and big-picture thinking to navigate complex challenges.

Connect with Nicola and Shereen: 

Website: https://counselbrew.com/

Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/counsel-brew/id1746634154

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/counsel-brew/

Nicola’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicola-hobeiche-84699960/

Shereen’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shereeneldomeiri/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mike Chastaine discuss:

• Managing time effectively and focusing on high-value tasks
• Law firm growth and business development
• The psychology of productivity
• Work-life balance and self-improvement

Key Takeaways:

• Prioritizing control over your daily schedule is essential because, rather than trying to manage time itself, lawyers should focus on managing their actions by scheduling focused work blocks, minimizing distractions, and ensuring that key priorities are intentionally planned.
• Using the 80/20 rule can drastically improve efficiency by identifying and focusing on the 20% of tasks that produce 80% of the results while delegating or eliminating lower-value work that consumes time without contributing significantly to success.
• Starting the day with meditation, gratitude journaling, and small victories (like making your bed) sets the tone for a more productive and controlled day.
• Applying the Profit First method to law firm finances can help ensure long-term financial stability by reversing the traditional approach to budgeting, prioritizing profit from the start, monitoring cash flow daily, and making strategic spending decisions only after ensuring profitability.

"There's no such thing as time management, because you don't manage time. What you manage is your conduct." —  Mike Chastaine

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Profit First by Mike Michalowicz: https://www.amazon.com/Profit-First-Transform-Cash-Eating-Money-Making/dp/073521414X/

About Mike Chastaine: Mike Chastaine is an award-winning attorney, speaker, and author with decades of experience in and out of the courtroom. After 16 years as a public defender and six years at a large firm, he founded the Chastaine Law Office in 2007, growing it into a seven-figure practice recognized as the Best Criminal Defense Firm in Northern California. In 2021, he sold the firm and shifted his focus to coaching and consulting, helping attorneys build successful, sustainable practices. 

Connect with Mike Chastaine:  

Website: https://michaelchastaine.com/

Email: mike@chastainejones.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-chastaine-4683104/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mike.chastaine

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Bruce La Fetra discuss:

• The importance of understanding your best clients
• Marketing strategy for law firms in a competitive landscape
• The difference between experts and advisors
• The power of client testimonials and validation

Key Takeaways:

• The best clients are not only more profitable but also easier to work with, as they buy faster, pay more, and create fewer headaches, making them essential for long-term business growth.
• Law firm marketing should shift from highlighting expertise to showcasing the real-world impact of legal services, such as improving business operations, reducing risks, or increasing revenue.
• Client testimonials are most effective when they emphasize specific, measurable outcomes—like increased working capital or faster contract execution—rather than vague endorsements.
• A law firm’s messaging, from its website to client conversations, should be strategically crafted to reflect what its best clients truly value, ensuring better alignment and stronger relationships.

"So, a lot of times, people don't know why their firm is successful. They know they have clients that they love working with, and those clients would go nowhere else, but they don't know why." —  Bruce La Fetra

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

The History of English Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-history-of-english-podcast/id538608536

About Bruce La Fetra: Law firm owners hire Bruce La Fetra to transform their marketing and positioning by attracting clients who buy faster, pay more, and make more referrals. Rainmakers call Bruce "The Client Whisperer" because he teaches them—and their firms—how to Think Like Your Best Clients.

Bruce takes a unique approach to understanding Best Clients. He reverse-engineers the best relationships so firms can clone their Best Clients by doing more of what they do best.

Connect with Bruce La Fetra:  

Website: http://eastwoodstrategy.com/

Email: bruce@easteoodstrategy.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blafetra/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and James Rodgers discuss:

• Evolution and confusion surrounding DEI in the workplace
• Human nature’s role in shaping workplace dynamics
• AI and automation as the next diversity challenge
• Managing generational differences in the workforce

Key Takeaways:

• DEI has repeatedly risen and fallen as activists and organizations redefine it, creating confusion over its true purpose.
• The next diversity challenge extends beyond human differences to integrating AI, robotics, and automation into the workforce.
• Instead of hiring based on identity markers like race or gender, leaders should prioritize missing perspectives that drive innovation and problem-solving.
• Effectively managing generational differences requires direct engagement with individuals rather than relying on broad assumptions about their work ethics or expectations.

"Forty years ago, the new reality was that there was going to be a new mix of human beings in the workplace. Now, the new reality is that there is going to be a mix of humans and non-human entities in the workplace." —  James Rodgers

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Behind The Human with Marc Champagne: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-human-with-marc-champagne/id1342231432

About James Rodgers: Dr. James O. Rodgers, known as “The Diversity Coach,” has spent 35+ years pioneering diversity management as a core enterprise discipline. Recognized as the #1 thought leader in the field, his books Managing Differently and Diversity Training That Generates Real Change are used in MBA programs and corporate initiatives worldwide. By blending sound management principles with practical diversity strategies, he emphasizes simplicity, pragmatism, and sustainability. He also coaches C-suite executives and directs the Executive Academy of ITSMF, preparing leaders of color for a changing world.

Connect with James Rodgers:  

Website: http://jamesorodgers.com/

Email: jora@thediversitycoach.com

Book: https://www.amazon.com/stores/James-O.-Rodgers/author/B001K7Y9WC

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesorodgers/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/51680091/admin/dashboard/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/james.rodgers.14661261/ & https://www.facebook.com/epiphanythebooks/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Saja Raoof discuss:

• Introversion in professional networking
• Building a legal practice as an introvert
• Managing energy and making meaningful connections
• The role of systems in business development

Key Takeaways:

• Taking intentional breaks during networking events, such as stepping away for alone time, is a crucial strategy for introverts to manage their energy and remain engaged without feeling overwhelmed.
• Introverts can make networking conversations more comfortable and effective by asking open-ended questions, such as ‘How did you get into your career?,’ which encourages others to share while allowing them to listen rather than dominate the discussion.
• Careful preparation before networking events—such as identifying key people to meet, reaching out in advance, and setting clear goals like making three meaningful connections—helps introverts feel more in control and makes the experience less daunting.
• Although introverts may shy away from the spotlight, embracing opportunities to speak, give testimonials, or lead discussions allows them to establish credibility and expand their network without relying on small talk or forced social interactions.

"I am so outspoken about being an introvert exactly to send a message to the people who are a little too close, or just, you know, it's okay to embrace and it's okay to talk about." —  Saja Raoof

Be That Lawyer is now syndicated on Above the Law! Catch all our new episodes and my monthly column there—spread the word and help us grow: https://abovethelaw.com/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Quiet by Susan Cain: https://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352153

Networking for People Who Hate Networking by Devora Zack: https://www.amazon.com/Networking-People-Who-Hate-Underconnected/dp/1605095222

About Saja Raoof: Saja Raoof is a San Francisco-based business immigration attorney. Though an introvert, she owes much of her professional success to networking. Saja will share tips on how introverts can not only survive but thrive at networking, and how they can leverage their strengths to build meaningful business relationships.

Connect with Saja Raoof:  

Website: https://www.sar.law/

Email: sar@sar.law

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sajaraoof/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jay McAllister discuss:

• The evolving role of AI in legal practice
• Leveraging AI for business development and marketing
• Ethical and risk considerations when using AI in law
• The future of legal technology and the rise of agentic AI

Key Takeaways:

• Many law firms have shifted from traditional keyword-based legal research to AI-powered tools that analyze case law and provide curated, context-aware results, significantly reducing time spent on research.
• Insurance carriers and other clients are leveraging data analytics and AI to challenge the hours law firms bill, forcing firms to adopt more efficient AI-driven workflows.
• A Stanford AI ethics professor submitted a legal brief with fabricated citations generated by AI, leading the judge to reject it outright and issue a warning that lawyers must verify AI-generated content before submitting it to court.
• Future AI systems will not only respond to queries but proactively complete legal tasks by recognizing key case milestones, drafting motions automatically, and sending them for attorney review.

"There were jobs that were lost, but ultimately, I don't think of it as a job that was lost. These jobs were transitioned to perform more useful, more useful activities." —  Jay McAllister

Be That Lawyer is now syndicated on Above the Law! Catch all our new episodes and my monthly column there—spread the word and help us grow: https://abovethelaw.com/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

The Game with Alex Hormozi: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-with-alex-hormozi/id1254720112

$100M Offers by Alex Hormozi: https://www.amazon.com/100M-Offers-People-Stupid-Saying/dp/1737475731

About Jay McAllister: Jay McAllister is the CEO of Paragon Tech. Driven by an unquenchable thirst for applied learning and innovation, Jay helps lawyers get the most out of their technology. In other words, they go from low-tech and busy to high-tech and productive.

Connect with Jay McAllister:  

Website: http://paragontechit.com/

Email: jay@paragontechit.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaymcallisterit/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. d

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ken Hardison discuss:

• Growing a law firm that runs independently and becomes a sellable asset
• Building relationships and giving value first
• Using structured processes and key metrics to drive predictable growth
• Mentorship, collaboration, and shared expertise

Key Takeaways:

• A law firm can only be sold for real value if it operates independently, maintains a steady case pipeline, and tracks performance through key metrics, ensuring buyers see it as a sustainable business rather than a personal brand.
• Lawyers who struggle with referrals often fail to ask, lack the right approach, or don't invest time in relationship-building, but those who prioritize value, reciprocity, and consistent engagement create a steady flow of high-quality referrals.
• Most lawyers lose business due to poor follow-up, but staying top-of-mind with referral sources through personalized thank-yous, occasional gifts, and regular check-ins ensures they continue sending cases your way.
• True financial success in law comes not from chasing profits but from focusing on genuinely helping people, because when clients and colleagues trust that you care, they are far more likely to send you business.

"You get what you want out of life by helping enough other people get what they want out of life.." —  Ken Hardison

Be That Lawyer is now syndicated on Above the Law! Catch all our new episodes and my monthly column there—spread the word and help us grow: https://abovethelaw.com/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Mastering the Rockefeller Habits by Verne Harnish: https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Rockefeller-Habits-22nd-Anniversary-dp-B0CXCDYCHN/dp/B0CXCDYCHN/

About Ken Hardison: Kenneth L. Hardison is a lawyer, author, and founder of PILMMA, the Personal Injury Lawyers Marketing & Management Association. Known as the "Millionaire Maker," Ken has grown and sold two multi-million-dollar law firms and now helps lawyers across the U.S. grow and scale their law firms to build the practice of their dreams.

Connect with Ken Hardison:  

Website: https://www.pilmma.org/

Email: ken@pilmma.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenhardison/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/PILMMA

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PILMMA

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pilmma/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chuck Andrews discuss:

• Challenges in making law firms and businesses scalable and saleable
• Strategic and mental preparation for business transitions
• Understanding client needs as a driver for business growth
• Overcoming personal barriers to achieve professional success

Key Takeaways:

• Many lawyers fail to create saleable practices because they don’t view their firms as scalable assets, instead focusing solely on leveraging personal skills.
• Emotional and psychological unpreparedness for life after selling a business often causes transitions to fail, making mental readiness as crucial as financial planning.
• Business owners can significantly improve scalability and growth by conducting client surveys to understand why customers choose their services.
• Identifying and managing personal saboteurs, such as the need to please or overachieve, is essential for breaking patterns that hinder both business and personal progress.

"The biggest challenge an attorney has is recognizing that they can build their practice into a saleable practice." —  Chuck Andrews

Be That Lawyer is now syndicated on Above the Law! Catch all our new episodes and my monthly column there—spread the word and help us grow: https://abovethelaw.com/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

What Happened to You? by Oprah Winfrey and Bruce D. Perry: https://www.amazon.com/What-Happened-You-Understanding-Resilience/dp/1250223180

Wisdom at Work by Chip Conley: https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Work-Making-Modern-Elder/dp/0525572902

Positive Intelligence by Shirzad Chamine: https://www.amazon.com/Positive-Intelligence-Individuals-Achieve-Potential/dp/1608322785

The Fifth Discipline by Peter M. Senge: https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Discipline-Practice-Learning-Organization/dp/0385517254

About Chuck Andrews: Chuck combines expertise in technology, M&A advisory, and executive coaching, integrating AI-driven solutions into his firm's services. Clients gain from tools like AI-based Value Drivers, a Positive Intelligence mental health app, and leadership development rooted in Vistage Peer Advisory Boards.

Connect with Chuck Andrews:  

Website: https://ceo15.us/

Email: chuck@ceo15.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ceo15-cca/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chuckCEO15/ & https://www.facebook.com/CAndrewsCEO

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.