Calming the Chaos

Calming the Chaos is a podcast hosted by Tracy Kenela.

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Latest Episodes

Jealous Minds - Overcoming Jealousy with Shanenn Bryant

Jealous Minds - Overcoming Jealousy with Shanenn Bryant

Jealous Minds - Interview with Shanenn Bryant

Today, our guest is Shanenn Bryant, a relationship confidence expert and one of the select few who focus on jealousy in relationships. Many people have daily anxiety and mistrust of their partners, even without evidence of infidelity. This fear runs so deep from either childhood dysfunction or past infidelity that they’ve now developed insecure habits like checking their partner’s phone, text messages, and social media accounts for any signs of infidelity. Shanenn is here on Calming the Chaos Podcast to discuss jealousy, how it can hurt relationships, and how people can move past jealousy and into trusting relationships with themselves and others.

Key points and Timestamps:

2:42: Shanenn’s story of chaos and how she became a Jealousy Relationship Expert

4:50: Shannen – “If my own father doesn’t love me, then why would anyone else?”

5:50 Shannen – Jealousy is shameful for people to admit. “There’s a lot of time wasted when your attention is focused on your partner 90% of the time.”

Jealousy affects all major life domains: Home, work, family, etc.

7:27: Shanenn - The difference between jealousy and envy

9:07 Shannen - How Jealousy shows up (3 ways)

1. Projection – Have YOU cheated in the past, so jealousy is projected onto another person

2. Protection – Were YOU in a relationship before where you were cheated on, so jealousy is protective

3. Competition – Were YOU in a friend group where you were excluded or uninvited to events, so jealousy is competitive in nature.

11:46: Tracy asks Shanenn to describe some situations where people are jealous

Two buckets:

1. Family of origin is unstable

2. The adult experience of infidelity on you helped you to develop insecure habits of protection

“Jealousy isn’t a problem, it’s a solution.” “What is the jealousy trying to solve?”

13:47 Tracy presents Hypothetical Jealousy Situation #1 to Shannen and she responds about what she would do

1. No cheating is happening, but jealousy is happening.

Shanenn: The first step is you need to get self-aware of what you are doing. Then, realize that it probably has nothing to do with what your partner is doing, but how YOU are perceiving what is going on. Then, asking yourself, “Why do you have so much fear about this?” Look at the beliefs and thoughts and check the facts.

18:27 Tracy presents Hypothetical Jealousy Situation #2 to Shanenn and she responds about what she would do

2. Cheating has happened in the past

Shanenn: It’s important for the offender to come clean about the whole story of the infidelity one time, preferably in the presence of a professional. It’s also important to give the offended partner time to process it, and consider the information they REALLY want to know, and what information might hurt them.

21:46: Tracy – Do you work with the person who ISN’T the jealous person? Setting boundaries and limits to questions and requests for reassurance. Work toward not providing reinforcement to the jealous partner

24:40 Tracy – When is there manageable jealousy and toxic jealousy? How can we figure that out and take action? Consider whether the jealous person is seeking help or working on the problem, how much love they have for the jealous partner. Seek out therapy or coaching from someone like Shanenn.

27:38 – Tracy describes how she works with couples who struggle with actual infidelity

“I don’t know whether this couple will stay together or break it off, but I do know this is that through the process we will gain some clarity either way.

Shanenn describes getting “kicked out” of couples therapy

Tracy – Some therapists admit they are beyond their expertise, so they do need to refer couples on

30:38: We tour Shanenn’s website and the products and services she has to offer

Free resources from...

Healing from Heartbreak

Healing from Heartbreak

Ben Oofana offers some insights and suggestions for those who are struggling with romantic breakups.

This podcast episode is being aired in the month of February, 2024, and is the start of the month where I focus on love and relationships.

More show notes to come! In the meantime, take care and check Ben out on his website at

Healing From Heartbreak - Interview with Ben Oofana

Today, our guest is Ben Oofana who, after a succession of destructive relationships in his mid-twenties, realized that he was reenacting the traumas of his childhood and adolescence. He had been living among the Kiowa and Kiowa-Apache Indians had been chosen to be an apprentice for Horace Daukei, the last surviving traditional Kiowa Medicine Man. After the breakups, Ben developed a series of intensive meditation practices to help people heal from deep emotional wounding, which is the work he continues to do today. Join us as Ben tells his story and tells us how we can heal from the heartbreak of a breakup or loss.

Key points:

Timestamp 5:54: Ben says “To scrape bottom is the only way to understand the suffering of the people you’re working with.” And “I discovered ways to heal devastating wounds, including romantic relationships.

Tracy: Who we are, and who we present ourselves in the world….that’s who we attract. And a spiritual connection can help when you go through a breakup

Timestamp 8:28 Ben says “Emotions are the doorway to access this deeper core being and a higher power. Most people dissociate, self-medicate and distract from the pain.

Timestamp 9:15: Ben says, “You can’t heal it if you don’t feel it.”

Timestamp 12:08: Ben’s theory about why we get into these relationships in the first place: When we have deeply wounded experiences as kids with no resources to cope, we develop coping that turns us away from emotions and numbs our senses and waking awareness. On the conscious level, we have a waking awareness, but the deeper subconscious level doesn’t come up until we’re triggered. Then, we carry the wounds and draw people similar to who have wounded us in the past.

Timestamp 25:00 “Nobody is broken, it’s just that sometimes your antennae is damaged or corroded.”

“Healing the deeply wounded parts of ourselves will make it possible for us to choose more wise partners and friends in the future."

Tips and Tools for Healing Heartbreak

Tip #1: Timestamp 9:20: You are the only one you will never lose or leave.” When a relationship doesn’t work, we can truly be present and feel authentic emotional responses, breathe, digest and use various therapeutic interventions to help.

Tip #2: Pay attention to yellow flags in relationships: notice numbing, desensitization, dissociation. This is happening because we can’t deal with our emotions.

Tip #3: When you are triggered emotionally, drop down into your body and breathe into your feelings and bodily sensations.

Tip #4: Develop your senses so that you can feel the person in your body….both the connection and the incompatibility

Tip #5: Timestamp 30:00 Do things to protect yourself from negative / toxic people (i.e. walking meditation and healing the deeply wounded parts of yourself). This will make you less vulnerable and will transform you and in turn help you attract healthier companions.


Ben’s website is

Ben Oofana’s recently posted article about strategies for bouncing back and healing after breakups

Ben’s free E-Book: "The Essentials of Getting Over Your Breakup and Moving On"...

Ticked Off - Surviving the Chaos of Tourette's Disorder

Ticked Off - Surviving the Chaos of Tourette's Disorder

Ticked off! | Surviving the Chaos of Tourettes Disorder with Kristof Morrow

Tourettes Disorder is one of the most challenging and debilitating mental health anyone can experience. It’s technically a Tic Disorder. Tics are sudden, rapid, unexpected and recurrent motor movements (i.e. hands, feet, legs, eye-blinking) and / or vocal utterings, either of random words and even vulgarities. People experience Tics and Tourettes in different ways, and few presentations are the same from person to person. Sounds like chaos, right?

Today, our guest is Kristof Morrow, a man who developed Tourettes Disorder at age 18 while serving in the U.S. Navy. And though he was eventually be discharged from Naval service because of the debilitating effects of Tourettes Disorder and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Kristof was able to discover his talents as a writer. Today, Kristof is an award-winning Author, journalist and his videos have gone viral on TikTok. Join us as Kristof tells his story and tells us how he was able to find success despite having a disability, and to give hope that anyone can overcome even the most challenging and chaotic situations in life.

Key points:

Kristof learned at an early age “When you are wrong, it gets violent”

When you grow up abused, you become an expert in changing and modifying yourself. It’s a perverted metamorphosis because modifying yourself doesn’t work because then you have no identity.

When you have an identity crisis, OCD and other means of coping are used, but these also cause problems.

Military service is a solemn, noble thing. Being a Corman Medic in the navy “was a beautiful thing” and “I wanted to know that I was capable of doing that kind of good.”

The letter Kristof wrote to service members in middle school. “What’s important to me is to provide care to everyone, and do no harm.”

Tics are a brief loss of agency. “The underlying cause is unknown, but I know what exacerbates it.”

Tips and Tools:

Tip #1: One of the main keys to healing is to understand that the notions you have about yourself arrived from abuse and not from the truth.

Tip #2: Know what exacerbates your tic(s), and wear gloves or protective clothing to prevent harm to yourself

Tip #3: Tics can manifest when you are under pressure, so learning to manage anxiety is crucial

Tip #4: When any meaningful relationships or any other life domains are compromised, it’s a sign that you need to accept that you have a mental health issue and can receive help for it

Tip #5: Mental health is not your fault but it is your responsibility

Tip #6: Being more forgiving toward yourself for having a mental health condition is helpful

Going Forward – And Doing Great Things (Kristof’s Top 10 Tips):

1. Making inspiring and profound connections with others who fulfill and support you

2. If you feel like you have a talent, cultivate it and don’t give up trying

3. “A lot of my success was privilege” (Being a white male) – Acknowledge your privilege

4. Learn to turn rejection into resilience

5. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

6. Work with your dopamine receptors by removing stimulants and sensory input and take medications if prescribed

7. Meditation and meditative breathing “Emptying a pool with a garden hose”

8. Emotional Freedom Technique or “Tapping”

9. Loop Earplugs – invisible noise reducing devices for sleep and during waking hours to reduce sensory input

10. “Even if the world falls down around us, we can all get through it hugging each other.”

“Justice and Redemption are folly…but to seek them is not.”

Link to Kristof’s Book:

Social Media Links:




Show Me The Money! Alan Lazaros Calms Financial Chaos

Show Me The Money! Alan Lazaros Calms Financial Chaos

Show Me the Money! | Alan Lazaros Can Help You Calm your Financial Chaos

Are you in a financial crisis? Having problems making money, or just wishing you had more money to move closer toward your dreams and goals in life? Certainly, there are many people who are currently experiencing financial chaos. If this is you, Alan Lazaros has some financial wisdom to share that can help you calm your financial chaos.

Alan is a Business Coach, Consultant, Trainer and Speaker who helps people maximize their growth, impact and profitability. He is the CEO and Co-Founder of Next Level University, and is also the Co-Host of Next Level University Podcast. During this podcast episode, Alan shares his up and down relationship with money, and his own unique brush with a near death experience that completely changed his life and made him contemplate who he was and the choices he was making in his life. Join us for a truly inspiring talk with someone who has found his way toward a life filled with self-improvement, meaning and purpose, and is now helping others do the same.

Key points and Questions:

At any time, some crisis can happen to throw you off physically, emotionally, financially

Achievement (what you do) is one thing, but what really matters is who you are, and how you are living your life with Health, Wealth and Love

Are you doing all you can with all you have?

Are you making wise choices?

Do you believe in yourself?

Financial position occurs on a continuum – We review the continuum and consider what people might do during tough financial times

Tips, Tools and Techniques (at timestamp 19:58) In summary:

• You are responsible for the outcomes in your life. You can re-tool, re-equip, learn a new skill, ask for help and resources

• Short term profitability vs. Long term wealth strategies. You need both

• Consider what you can use around you to help you meet your basic needs, while also considering what you’ll need to do long term to reach your goals and dreams

• Anyone who is entitled is in trouble (timestamp 29:01) Keep a good work ethic, have humility, gratitude, appreciate opportunity and have self-discipline.

• When you have a medical or mental health condition, play your part, do what you can with what you have

• Don’t rely on Public Assistance but accept resources from trusted others

• Focus on who loves you, who is on your team and who wants to see you win

• Ask for free resources, Go Fund Me and free mentorships

• “People help people who put in the effort, show humility and express gratitude.”

• If you are homeless, try adding value to what you can do, express humility, do what it takes, and know the value of earning a dollar

• Getting results does not happen without effort, time, training, connections

Social Media Links:


Podcast: "Next Level University" (Available on iTunes, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and more) Here is the Apple Podcasts Link:

YouTube Channel:

Facebook Page:

Instagram: @alazaros88



Book by Bonnie Ware: “The Top 5 Regrets of the Dying”

Bonnie’s Blog / Website:

Ted Talk by Tony Robbins called “Why We do What We Do.”

On YouTube at:

Also at

John Mayer Song with the reference to a Quarter Life Crisis

"Why Georgia Why" Crisis

Viktor Frankl Great Quotes!...

Help! I am in Crisis | Crisis Coaching with Debra Woog

Help! I am in Crisis | Crisis Coaching with Debra Woog

Help! I’m in Crisis! | Debra Woog talks Divorce, Co-Parenting, Family Conflict and More!

Since the Pandemic, the divorce rate has increased, people are frustrated with one another and just don’t get along with other people. Families, friends, and romantic relationships are in peril. Truly, people are in chaos!

I chose to interview Debra Woog because she is a Crisis Navigation Partner, and she can offer her expertise about how to manage the conflict within relationships, which includes, family, friendships and romantic relationships. Debra has over 30 years of experience as a Leadership Researcher, Executive, and Advisor. Debra helps people process difficult situations, connect with necessary resources, communicate effectively and lead their lives with a clear mind and a solid strategy for success.


Debra introduces herself by talking about her own crises and talking about what crisis is.

Key points:

At a time where people are exhausted, burned out and have less capacity to handle things

There comes a crisis or a conflict

And there are fewer internal and external resources to handle it all

People give up, blame other people or themselves

What do we do when we’re unable to accommodate the needs and values of others?

Should we come to an agreement?

What are the advantages of getting along, understanding the viewpoints of others?

What do we do legally, financially and in our homes and families?

The process:

1. Self-Care

2. Enlist the care of others (Therapists, Coaches, Crisis Navigation Partners and Legal)

3. Engage with others

Social Media Links:

a. Website

b. Social Media Links

i. Facebook:


NYT Article on Loneliness:

A Permanent Solution to Anxiety? | Daniel Packard

A Permanent Solution to Anxiety? | Daniel Packard

A Permanent Solution to Anxiety? | Daniel Packard

One of the most common mental health conditions I see as a Therapist in private practice is Anxiety. Whether it is about social situations, relationships, work or school performance, health or family, anxiety often arises in situations that are unpredictable, uncertain or unknown. Which is why so many people experience anxiety in times of chaos, because chaos is by nature unpredictable, random, disorderly, messy.

There are a variety of different skills, tools and techniques to cope with anxiety. And most of them work just great if used consistently and properly. But what if there was a permanent solution to anxiety?

Well that brings us to our guest today. Daniel Packard is going to talk with us about a more permanent solution to anxiety…without using all the traditional coping skills, tools and techniques.

Daniel is a U.C. Berkeley Mechanical Engineer who turned his painful 10 year battle with severe anxiety into a mission to reverse engineer a permanent solution for anxiety. We’re going to find out more about Daniel’s story, and also his permanent solution to anxiety.


Daniel introduces himself and talks about how he reverse-engineered a permanent solution to anxiety, as opposed to just managing it. He offers a way to get past the belief “I am broken” and how to solve anxiety permanently.

Tracy’s 1-2-3 step method of Managing Anxiety

1. Be aware of anxiety and how it feels in your body

2. Use coping skills to calm the body’s physiology

3. Spot errors in your thinking and check the facts

Daniel’s Background and Research into Anxiety

A toxic relationship and missing ALL the flags (from white to purple to red)

Developing Complex PTSD

Trying “everything” to treat it for 10 years and losing hope

Then: The idea to “reverse engineer” a permanent solution to anxiety

Solving Anxiety – Permanently?

1. Exploring what anxiety looks like mechanically

2. Testing it with real participants around the world

3. Approaching the skeptics / mental health professionals who “don’t seem to care” and think anxiety is a problem with the mind. But what’s missing?

4. Engineering a solution that is based in problem-solving

5. “The root cause is in the body. The mind is only linked to it…it’s not the cause.”

“My body is feeling anxious” helps you to understand that anxiety is a problem of the body.

“Some well-meaning professionals sent you to the wrong location to deal with the problem of anxiety”

Tracy Pushes Back: “Isn’t anxiety necessary?”

Daniel: There’s a difference between the body’s stress response (body is on high alert for a short time) and anxiety (body is on high alert for a long period of time)

Key points:

Your body is creating the anxiety, not your mind.

There is a shame / stigma about the idea that anxiety is happening in the mind

“There’s no stigma in the idea that anxiety happens in the body”

Understanding why your nervous system is malfunctioning and that there is a way to repair it and maintain it

Every system needs the basics: The body needs care and maintenance in all sorts of ways. There are 29 basics of care that we weren’t taught. You can repair the nervous system and maintain it.

The process:

1. Repair

2. Retrain

3. Maintain


a. Website

b. Social Media Links

i. Twitter @danielpackard

ii. Instagram @danielpackard

iii. YouTube Channel

c. Resources

A Recent Podcast Daniel was on:


A Backstabbing Friend? Eating Disorders in Midlife with Nicole Christina

A Backstabbing Friend? Eating Disorders in Midlife with Nicole Christina

An Elegant Solution or a Backstabbing Friend? | Exploring Eating Disorders in Midlife with Nicole Christina, LCSW

Eating Disorders are mental health conditions that affect people of all ages. In this podcast, Nicole Christina discusses the unique conditions under which Eating Disorders affect women in midlife. Nicole is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) in upstate New York who has worked with individuals who struggle with Eating Disorders for over 30 years. She also has a podcast called “Zestful Aging.” In this podcast, Nicole shares her knowledge about how Eating Disorders affect women in midlife, and offers some tools and resources for prevention and recovery.


Nicole introduces herself and talks about her professional experience treating individuals who struggle with Eating Disorders, and how she became interested in working with women in midlife who struggle with Eating Disorders.

Eating Disorder Discussion

What are some of the signs that someone could be struggling with an Eating Disorder in Midlife?

1. Changes in situations and in body (Body, aging parents, empty nest, grey divorce and mortality awareness)

2. Menopause – Changes in physical body

3. Social Influences and Life Domains

4. Social Media (Beauty Standards, Instant Information and Feedback from others)

5. Control, when life seems chaotic

6. Reinforcers

7. Children, especially Daughters

Awareness: What can we do recognize and help people who could have an Eating Disorder in midlife?

• The starved brain

• Positive comments may reinforce harmful eating behaviors

• Spotting inaccurate thinking

• Social media and “Super Agers”

Solutions: What can we do?

• Focus on how well you live, and the quality of your life

• Notice how much you obsess….and choose not to do it

• Know who you are and embrace it

• Being in Relationship with others and yourself

• Being connected with others and yourself at any level

• Lower your stress

The upcoming Holiday Season: Resources to help those who are struggling with eating in midlife

o “It’s one Day

o Continue to check in with yourself

o Stay Mindful

o Enjoy Yourself

o Enjoy the Food

o Practice Intuitive Eating

o Eat like a Normal Day

o Focus on the connection

o Focus on what you have to offer, rather than how much you eat, what you look like or what you weigh

o “You have so much to offer… The world needs your contributions!


a. Nicole’s Website

b. Social Media Links


Instagram: or @zestfulaging

c. “Fat is a Feminine Issue”

d. “Intuitive Eating”

e. Tracy’s Calming the Chaos Podcast Interviews about Eating Disorders:

i. From Chaos to Disorder with Dr. Anita Johnston

ii. Myths and Facts about Eating Disorders with Stacy Schilter-Pisano

iii. Eating Disorders and the Holidays with Stacy Schilter-Pisano

iv. Transcending Weight Bais with Amelia Meacham

v. Therapists who had Disordered Eating with Maria Rippo

vi. Mindful Eating with Tracy Kenela (solo Episode)

vii. Therapists who are afraid of Treating Eating Disorders with Katie Lear

viii. Helping the Hangry – Part I with Katie Hart


Sexual Chaos - Exploring Male Sexual Expression with Jack Kammer

Sexual Chaos - Exploring Male Sexual Expression with Jack Kammer

Sexual Chaos: Discussion on Male Sexual Expression – Interview with Jack Kammer

Intro: Have you ever wondered why Calming the Chaos Podcast hasn’t talked specifically about the topic of sex? It’s because nobody has asked me to! Until now. In this podcast, I talk with Jack Kammer, an Author and commentator on issues between men and women. Jack has a passion of helping policy makers see and understand the connection between male gender issues and some of America’s social problems. Join us for an open, fair, friendly and respectful discussion about the sexual expression of men and boys today, and what we can do to calm the sexual chaos.

I. The Male Point Of View (Jack)

II. The definition of Male Sexual Expression (per Chat GPT)

Male sexual expression refers to the various ways in which individuals who identify as male express their sexuality, desires, and preferences in a manner that is authentic to them. It encompasses a wide range of behaviors, feelings, and identities related to sexual attraction, arousal, and intimate relationships. Male sexual expression can include aspects such as communication, consent, self-discovery, and the ability to express one's desires and boundaries in a healthy and respectful manner. It is important to recognize that male sexual expression is diverse and can vary greatly among individuals, reflecting the complexity of human sexuality.

What is true? How are men “allowed” to express their sexuality? Male Stereotypes. Confusion.

Tracy: Does this mean “Free the nip” and “Free the tip?”

Jack: It depends on the where, when, with what expectation and intention (context)

III. Young men have a difficult time because “Women have the power”

• How many times per day do men think about having sex?

• How many times per day do women think about being sexy?

IV. A Seat at the Table – “Men get cast away from the discussion” (Jack)

• Why aren’t men included? “Because they are seen as the enemy” (Jack)

• Why would we want to attract the enemy? (Tracy)

• Historic context, including feminine and masculine roles, and “EP” (Earning Potential)

V. This is the chaos!

• Tracy: Both male and female traits can be expressed and they are okay. Be yourself!

• Jack: Women have a lot of latitude in their self-expression, men don’t

Are men “subservient, second class, unimportant and inferior?

The hope is that females would be aware of their feminine power and I’m respectful, aware and mindful of the needs of men and boys.

• Tracy: We all have personal power. Be aware and use it mindfully.

• Jack: Let’s have open, fair, friendly and respectful discussions. Invite men to a seat at the table!

VI. The Patriarchy

VII. The Persona and the Shadow

VIII. The Alpha Male vs. “The Alphabet Male”

IX. What can females do?

• Don’t laugh at sexist jokes about how clueless men are

• Try not to assume male stereotypes

• Acknowledge your ideas of superiority over men

X. Free the nip and the tip? “Maybe we’re not ready for that yet”

XI. Sample social media ads that are geared toward making men suffer

XII. Impromptu Fun with the two R’s: Red Shoe Diaries and Russell Brand

XIII. Contact Jack:

• Website / Blog:

• Twitter:

• More information:

#sexualexpression #society #feminism

Poking the Bear - Can Acupuncture Cure Depression?

Poking the Bear - Can Acupuncture Cure Depression?

Poking the Bear: Can Acupuncture Calm your Chaos? – Interview with Dr. Alex Joannou

Intro: Do you struggle with a physical or mental health condition that just isn’t going away? If so, then perhaps you’d be a good candidate for Acupuncture! If you are interested in learning more about acupuncture, listen to Dr. Alex Joannou talk about what Acupuncture is, and how it might help you calm your chaos.

I. Dr. Joannou, tell us about yourself

II. Describe how you got interested in doing Acupuncture

III. Describe what Acupuncture can help, including conditions such as:

• Anxiety

• Depression

• Physical Pain

• Eating Disorders

• Fears

• Self-Esteem

• Other? (ADHD, Autism, etc)

What is the process of doing acupuncture, including how long does it take, what can you expect and does it hurt?

IV. Sell Tracy on the process of Acupuncture: Why should she try it?

V. How to choose a good Acupuncture Professional

VI. Dr. Joannou’s products and services

VII. Impromptu Australian Animal Quiz – Dr. Joannou gets 100%

VIII. Website:

Dr Alexander Joannou MBBS(Hons) FACNEM is creator of the Transformational Acupuncture System. During his 40-year medical career he has been consulted over 300,000 times and has witnessed firsthand the complex interrelationship between mind, body and spirit. He is one of Australia’s thought leaders in the management of depression and other mental illnesses. You can reach him at:

Bio of Calming the Chaos

Calming the Chaos is a podcast hosted by Tracy Kenela, a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, dedicated to exploring various approaches and techniques to find inner peace and tranquility in a chaotic world. Tracy engages in conversations with professionals from diverse backgrounds and locations, seeking different perspectives and insights to help individuals, including herself, navigate the challenges of life.

In each episode, listeners can expect to discover a wealth of information, tips, tools, and resources sourced from various schools of thought. Tracy presents this valuable content in a fun and entertaining manner, making the journey toward a more peaceful and enjoyable life engaging and accessible.

The podcast covers a wide range of topics and features guests who specialize in different areas, allowing for a comprehensive exploration of strategies for finding calm amidst chaos.

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