Innovating Leadership: Co-Creating Our Future

- How Five Types of Followers Make (or Brake) a Toxic Leader

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About Our Guest:

Dr. Michelle Harrison works as an advisor to governments and corporations around the world to build and deliver better public policy. She was the Founding CEO of Verian, leading the organisation for its first decade, during which time she established it as a division of Kantar and then led its evolution to a privately owned independent company and the largest specialist public policy consulting business outside of the US.

She is Chair of the Verian Institute for Public Impact, and a regular platform speaker and media commentator on issues of geopolitical and social change. Michelle was previously the Founding Global CEO of the WPP’s Government and Public Sector Practice, which pioneered a paradigm shift in applied behaviour change communications for public policy and scaled across every continent.

Throughout her career, Michelle has held NED and Trustee roles in the areas of public realm innovation and social investment, including at Nesta (2012 – 2018) and Social Finance (2019 – 2025). She has served on numerous advisory committees for U.K. government. She sits on the Advisory Board of the Reykjavik Global Forum and is the co-founder of The Reykjavik Index for Leadership.

S11 Ep17: To Stop a Tyrant: The Power of Followers

Guest: Ira Chaleff

What can you do when leadership at work crosses the line into authoritarian control?

We talk about authoritarians in politics, but they’re in the business world, too…and on the rise there. In this timely and provocative episode, Maureen Metcalf interviews Ira Chaleff, author of To Stop a Tyrant and The Courageous Follower, to explore how power is exercised, and challenged, inside both governments and organizations.

Here's what Ira and Maureen cover:

How authoritarian behavior is rising in business as well as politics;
The difference between dissent and disloyalty;
Why political acuity is essential for ethical influence

Learn more from Ira’s in-depth knowledge of followership in these past episodes:

- The Dance Between Leadership & Followership – Margaret Heffernan joins Ira

- Courageous Followership – Neil Grunberg joins Ira

For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. We’re onTikTok, Threads, and Twitter, too!

RESOURCES:

Ira’s book, To Stop a Tyrant, is available now on Amazon in hardback at https://amzn.to/3W5XDys and on Kindle at https://amzn.to/420Zvwc. An audiobook edition is on Audible.com as well.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

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OUR PODCAST TEAM:

Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf

Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko

Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan

Booking Procucer: Jenna Reik

Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.

CONNECT WITH US:

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!

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About Our Guest:

Ira Chaleff is an author, speaker, and innovative thinker specializing in the dynamics between leaders and followers. He serves as chairman emeritus of the nonpartisan Congressional Management Foundation in Washington, D.C., an organization dedicated to enhancing communication between constituents and their elected representatives.

Chaleff's groundbreaking work, The Courageous Follower: Standing Up to and for Our Leaders, has been published in multiple languages and is utilized globally across educational, corporate, government, and military institutions. He co-edited The Art of Followership: How Great Followers Create Great Leaders and Organizations, part of the esteemed Warren Bennis Leadership Series. His book Intelligent Disobedience: Doing Right When What You're Told to Do Is Wrong explores the roots of obedience and provides guidance on resisting inappropriate orders to achieve ethical outcomes.

As the founder of the Followership Learning Community within the International Leadership Association, Chaleff has been recognized as one of the 100 "Best Minds on Leadership" by Leadership Excellence magazine. He has served on the board of the International Leadership Association and was a visiting leadership scholar at Churchill College, University of Cambridge, England. His ideas on leadership and followership have influenced cultures within the U.S. military, civilian agencies, and international institutions, including the European Union and the British Army.

Chaleff holds a degree in Applied Behavioral Science and is a Board Certified Coach from the Center for Credentialing and Education. He continues to contribute to the global followership community through writing and lecturing from his home in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia.

S4 Ep11: The Power of Polarity Thinking: How Great Leaders Leverage Opposites

Guest: Dr. Barry Johnson

If you think you have to solve problems, think again. You might be better off leveraging tensions instead!

Dr. Barry Johnson, creator of the Polarity Map®, joins host Maureen Metcalf to explore how “both/and” thinking helps leaders navigate complexity, avoid false choices, and drive sustainable performance. From clarity and flexibility to structure and innovation, Barry shares how thriving organizations—and societies—balance competing values rather than pick sides. It’s called polarity thinking…and it works. Packed with stories from the U.S. Navy, Singapore Airlines, and South Africa, this conversation offers a powerful framework for leading in uncertain times.

Here's what Barry and Maureen cover:

Why choosing a side or over-focusing on one side of an issue can lead to conflict, instead of solving it – and, in extreme cases, break down your organization;
How high-performing organizations depend on well-managed tension; and
Spotting the false choices that will keep your team stuck.

Produced in partnership with the International Leadership Association: https://ilaglobalnetwork.org/.

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

- The Leadership Balancing Act with Michelle Harrison

- A Prime Minister’s Path for Meeting Challenges with George Papandreou

- Navigating Touch Decisions with former Canadian Chief Justic Beverley McLachlin

For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.

RESOURCES:

The website to learn more about Barry’s work is https://www.polaritypartnerships.com/.

Barry’s books include And: Making a Difference by Leveraging Polarities, Paradox or Dilemma (on Amazon at https://amzn.to/45gnfO0 ) and Polarity Management: Identifying and Managing Unsolvable Problems (https://amzn.to/3IyjqLx ).

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8 . The audiobook version is now available at https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

NOTE: As an Amazon partner, we may make a small commission from books you buy through these links.

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OUR PODCAST TEAM:

Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf

Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko

Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan

Booking Producer: Jenna Reik

CONNECT WITH US:

- The 10 Leadership Skills You Need to Safely Adopt AI

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About Our Guest:

Barry Johnson created the first Polarity Map® and set of principles in 1975. Since then he has been learning and applying Polarity Thinking® with people and organizations all over the world. He continues to explore and promote supplementing Or-thinking with And-thinking to enhance our quality of life on our planet.

With humility And pride, Barry is passionate about creating an international community of Polarity Practitioners who are dedicated to the study and application of Polarities in a variety of disciplines and situations.

Barry’s newest publications, And: Volume One – Foundations and And: Volume Two – Applications, represent what he and his colleagues have learned about And-thinking since his first book, Polarity Management: Identifying and Managing Unsolvable Problems, came out in 1992.

Barry is an avid outdoorsman and intrepid traveler. He brings his head and heart together in his teaching and consulting. Barry and his wife, Dana, have five children and eleven grandchildren.

S11 Ep16: AI at Work: The Human Side of Tech Transformation

Guest: Neil Sahota, United Nations AI Advisor

From internal sabotage and mistrust to ethical blind spots and cultural misalignment, this conversation dives deep into the real reasons AI transformations succeed or stall…and the solutions you need to make AI work in your company. You’ll also hear powerful examples of machine-human collaboration, the rise of AI bosses, and why trust is now a core leadership metric.

Here's what Neil and Maureen cover:

The #1 reason AI rollouts fail – and how you can avoid it;
How to assess your organization’s readiness for AI; and
Practical strategies to build buy-in, trust, and adaptability.

Neil’s other binge-worthy episodes about AI are:

- Unleashing the Power of Human-AI Collaboration

- How to Own the AI Revolution

- And, of course, the first part of this interview: Why AI at Work Fails

For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.

RESOURCES:

Neil’s book, Own the AI Revolution, is available on Amazon at https://amzn.to/4kx4af3, and on Audible at https://amzn.to/4lgS0rK.

Learn more about Neil on his website at https://www.neilsahota.com/. He shares his latest observations on AI in the workplace on his Substack channel at neilsahota@substack.com.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

The book Maureen and Neil referenced which they wrote together is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

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OUR PODCAST TEAM:

Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf

Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko

Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan

Booking Producer: Jenna Reik

Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.

CONNECT WITH US:

- The 10 Leadership Skills You Need to Safely Adopt AI

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!

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About Our Guest:

Neil Sahota (萨冠军) is an IBM Master Inventor, United Nations (UN) Artificial Intelligence (AI) Advisor, author of the best-seller Own the AI Revolution and sought-after speaker. With 20+ years of business experience, he works to inspire clients and business partners to foster innovation and develop next generation products/solutions powered by AI.

S11-Ep15: -Why AI at Work Fails – And What the UN’s AI for Good Advisor Says You Can Do Differently

Guest: Neil Sahota, United Nations AI Advisor

Most AI failures aren’t caused by bad code. They’re caused by bad leadership.

In this episode, host Maureen Metcalf talks with UN AI advisor and IBM Master Inventor Neil Sahota to uncover the 5 fatal mistakes most organizations make when adopting AI. From the myth that AI is "just software" to the risk of automating bad processes, Neil explains why 4 out of 5 failures are human and leadership-based, not technical. Learn how treating AI like a high-energy intern, not a black box, transforms your success rate. This episode is a must for leaders looking to build effective, ethical, and future-ready AI strategies.

Here's what Neil and Maureen cover:

The real business pain points when adopting AI apps at your company;
How bias and hallucinations sneak into AI when you rely on your tech team over your subject matter experts; and
Why AI amplifies your mistakes as well as your strengths.

Neil’s other binge-worthy episodes about AI are:

- Unleashing the Power of Human-AI Collaboration

- How to Own the AI Revolution

For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.

RESOURCES:

Neil’s book, Own the AI Revolution, is available on Amazon at https://amzn.to/4kx4af3, and on Audible at https://amzn.to/4lgS0rK.

Learn more about Neil on his website at https://www.neilsahota.com/. He shares his latest observations on AI in the workplace on his Substack channel at neilsahota@substack.com.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

The book Maureen and Neil referenced which they wrote together is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

-----------------------

OUR PODCAST TEAM:

Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf

Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko

Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan

Booking Producer: Jenna Reik

Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.

CONNECT WITH US:

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!

-----------------------

About Our Guest:

Neil Sahota (萨冠军) is an IBM Master Inventor, United Nations (UN) Artificial Intelligence (AI) Advisor, author of the best-seller Own the AI Revolution and sought-after speaker. With 20+ years of business experience, he works to inspire clients and business partners to foster innovation and develop next generation products/solutions powered by AI.

S4-Ep10: Leadership in Crisis: Why Leaders Fail (& How to Help)

Guest: Sebastian Salicru, Psychologist & Author

Are we training leaders for a world that no longer exists?

Leadership expert and psychologist Sebastian Salicru joins host Maureen Metcalf to tackle one of today’s most pressing challenges: the failure of traditional leadership in a world defined by complexity and change. More importantly, they explore what today’s leaders actually need to succeed in a high-velocity world.

Here's what Sebastian and Maureen cover:

The breakdown and downfall of the heroic leader;
Why the billions of dollars spent on leadership development aren’t delivering results;
The very real yet positive role of failure and suffering in building great leaders; and
Why we must challenge the outdated mental models holding leadership back.

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

- Tales from the Top: How Leaders Use Stories with Dr. Tanvi Gautam

- The Rise of Humanness with Chris Nolan & Michael Schindler

- Leading with Care & Purpose with Raj Sisodia & Sudhanshu Palsule

For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.

RESOURCES:

Sebastian has a website filled with information on his leadership work at https://ptspsychology.com/.

His book, Leadership Results, is available on Amazon at https://amzn.to/4nulK66.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter ever y week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8 . The audiobook version is now available at https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

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OUR PODCAST TEAM:

Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf

Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko

Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan

Booking Producer: Jenna Reik

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @innovativeleader

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!

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About Our Guest:

Sebastian Salicru has been a registered psychologist for over 25 years, and has professional experience in both clinical and corporate settings. Sebastian empowers his clients to: make better (and often previously unimaginable) decisions and choices about their personal and/or professional lives; set ambitious goals; take positive and bold action; change the status quo; achieve real outcomes and long-lasting results; enjoy intimate relationships, and live meaningful lives.

In addition to English, Sebastian speaks French, Italian and Spanish.

In addition to being a registered psychologist, Sebastian is: a board-approved supervisor by the Psychology Board of Australia; a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) of the International Coach Federation (ICF); a graduate from the ‘Art & Practice of Leadership Development’, Harvard University Kennedy School; a Fellow of the Institute of Coaching, McLean Hospital, Harvard Medical School; and author of multiple publications.

S11-Ep14: How Great Leaders Are Made: Insights from The Economist’s "Boss Class"

Guest: Andrew Palmer, The Economist columnist & Boss Class host

What makes a great boss, and why do so many managers get it wrong? The Economist columnist and Boss Class host Andrew Palmer joins Maureen Metcalf to break down what actually works in leadership today. From radical autonomy at Supercell to intentional culture-building at Toyota, this episode explores real-world strategies for creating high-performance teams and organizations.

Learn how qualities like self-awareness, transparency, and systems-thinking separate mediocre managers from truly effective leaders. Whether you’re new to management or shaping culture as a CEO, these stories and insights will elevate your leadership practice.

Here's what Andrew and Maureen cover:

Why most managers never receive formal training (and what to do about it);
How exceptional leaders optimize their impact; and
Radical autonomy and other ways Supercell, Stryker, Toyota, Novo Nordisk, and others create the world’s top workplaces.

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

- From Ego to Impact with New Rhein’s Subhanu Saxena

- The White House Lessons for Every Leader with Presidential Advisor Betsy Myers

- Hilton’s Pillars for Thriving After Disaster with Hampton Inns & Spark SVP Shruti Gandhi Buckley

For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.

RESOURCES:

You can find Andrew’s Boss Class (and other podcasts from The Economist) at http://bit.ly/3HR1ATy.

Andrew’s Bartleby column is online at https://www.economist.com/topics/bartleby.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

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OUR PODCAST TEAM:

Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf

Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko

Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan

Booking Producer: Jenna Reik

Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.

CONNECT WITH US:

Instagram: @innovativeleader

- 11 Steps to Help You Heal Divides

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!

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About Our Guest:

Andrew Palmer writes the Bartleby column on the workplace, and is the host of “Boss Class”, our limited-season podcast on management. He was formerly Britain editor, executive editor, business-affairs editor, head of the data team, Americas editor, finance editor and banking correspondent, having joined The Economist as management correspondent in February 2007.

S2-Ep53: Leading through Difference: Key Skills from the ILA Board Chair

Guest: Mike Hardy, ILA Board Chair

The real leadership crisis isn’t about performance. It’s about how we handle differences.

In this powerful episode, Professor Mike Hardy, Founding Director of the Centre for Peace & Security, joins host Maureen Metcalf to explore the defining leadership challenge of our time: Pluralism vs. Prejudice.

It’s critical: even if your organization only operates in one city, odds are your team will have people from different generations, family cultures, and hometowns…much less religions and ethnicities. Bonding them all into one cohesive team is essential.

Mike makes a compelling case that the future of leadership depends on moving beyond identity to behavior-based inclusion, and calls leaders to rethink how they respond to difference.

Here's what Mike and Maureen cover:

How a leader’s behavior, not identity, builds real trust;
The dance between pluralism and prejudice in today’s workplace; and
Why inclusion often fails…and what makes it work.

Produced in partnership with the International Leadership Association: https://ilaglobalnetwork.org/.

Enjoy a hearty Hardy binge with these other episodes featuring Mike:

- The Accidental Peacemaker with Mike’s friend Steve Killelea

- Peace through Better Leaders

For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.

RESOURCES:

Mike’s Centre for Peace & Security is online at https://bit.ly/CentreForPeace.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

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OUR PODCAST TEAM:

Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf

Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko

Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan

Booking Producer: Jenna Reik

CONNECT WITH US:

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!

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About Our Guest:

Mike Hardy is the founding director of the Centre for Peace & Security at Coventry University. The Centre is a multi-disciplinary team of researchers and experts whose work draws together issues such as conflict resolution and reconciliation, social identity, inequality and mobility, wealth and poverty, integration and pluralism, prejudice and discrimination, intergroup conflict and cooperation, the problem of civil rights and the politics of equality. Mike has been twice honoured, awarded the OBE in 2001 for his peace-building work in the Middle East, and appointed a Companion of Honour of St Michael and St George (CMG) in the Queen’s Birthday Honours, June 2010, for his work internationally in Intercultural Dialogue. Mike is a trustee of 3FF, the leading interfaith charity in the UK, and board chair of the US-based International Leadership Association.

S11-Ep13: From Tariffs to Tempests: DHL’s COO on Strengthening Your Supply Chain

Guest: Mike McLellan, COO, DHL Supply Chain (North America)

What does it take to keep your business humming through tariffs, tornadoes, and all the other disruptions in today’s world?

Mike McLellan of DHL shares insights on building resilience, both in your leadership and your supply chains, the importance of redundancy, and how DHL provides an example of supporting clients in navigating challenges. The discussion also touches on the evolving roles of senior leadership, driving cultural excellence within the organization, and the transformative power of strategic planning.

Here's what Mike and Maureen cover:

The current and emerging impacts of the U.S. tariff war;
The major danger of having a single-thread supply chain; and
The strengths of culture-driven leadership and executive humility.

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

- Disruption No More: Future-Proofing Your Business with Mike McLellan

- Unraveling Uncertainty: The Real Job of Modern Leaders with Michael Marks

- Leading with Care & Purpose with Sudhanshu Palsule and Raj Sisodia

For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.

RESOURCES:

You can learn more about DHL Supply Chain at https://bit.ly/DHLpreps. To contact Mike directly, email him at michael.mclellan@dhl.com.

Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.

Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.

Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.

-----------------------

OUR PODCAST TEAM:

Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf

Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko

Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan

Booking Producer: Jenna Reik

Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.

CONNECT WITH US: