The Digital Marketing Podcast

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles is joined by Matthew Gardiner from World Travel Market for a special look at how the user journey is being radically reshaped, and why the travel industry offers a powerful lens for understanding the broader changes all marketers now face. From AI-powered search and agents, to disconnected content ecosystems, collapsing funnels, and new expectations for sustainability and meaning, the way users discover, evaluate, and buy has shifted. Whether you work in travel or not, this episode delivers insight into how to adapt your digital strategy for a fragmented, AI-enhanced, and purpose-driven customer journey. In This Episode: Why AI is collapsing the funnel Users no longer move in a straight line from awareness to action. Conversations with AI agents like ChatGPT are replacing multi-step journeys. Whoever owns the AI conversation, owns the customer. From connected to disconnected content The shift from traditional, connected social feeds to short-form, algorithmically driven discovery (Reels, TikToks, Shorts) has changed how we build awareness and trust. AI Overviews and Answer Engine Optimisation With 55% of Google searches now including AI summaries, Daniel explains why SEO alone is not enough and how Generative Engine Optimisation (GEO) and Answer Engine Optimisation (AEO) are the new battlegrounds. Agents are doing the work From itinerary planning to automated bookings, AI agents are reshaping how users interact with brands, often bypassing websites altogether. The new role of structured data Matthew shares how travel brands must now treat structured markup (schema) as a new kind of distribution, ensuring they are machine-readable to AI systems. Why user testing must change Daniel explains why marketers must rethink usability testing to account for personalised algorithms, behaviour-based ad targeting, and AI-powered search. Brand loyalty as a survival tactic In an age of disintermediation, programmes like Bonvoy are keeping users loyal through gamification and exclusive benefits, offering lessons for all industries. Content strategy for the AI era From FAQs and multilingual support to video answers and UGC, the path to visibility is paved with granular, high-quality, human-first content. Industry Case Study: Travel Through a detailed conversation with Matthew Gardiner, the episode explores how the travel industry has continually adapted to disruption. From the rise of OTAs and TripAdvisor to today's challenges around AI agents, soft adventure trends, live tourism, and sustainability expectations, travel may be the canary in the coal mine but its lessons are highly applicable to every sector. Key Takeaways: AI is not just changing how people search; it is rewriting how people trust, book, and choose. Being mentioned in AI conversations is the new SEO. Structured data and FAQ-rich content are your ticket in. Agents now do things, not just recommend. Optimising for transactions and post-click experience is vital. Loyalty schemes, brand identity, and customer advocacy matter more than ever to bypass AI's generic results. Usability testing must reflect real, personalised experiences, not idealised lab setups. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/the-changing-user-journey-lessons-from-the-travel-industry 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

In this special episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles sits down with Alex Schultz, Meta's Chief Marketing Officer and Vice President of Analytics, to unpack the future of digital marketing, and why the fundamentals still matter more than ever. Alex shares lessons from his remarkable journey: from running the world's top paper airplane website to leading growth at Meta, managing multi-billion dollar ad campaigns, and now authoring the industry-defining book Click Here. With high-profile endorsements from Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Daniel Ek, and Matthew Vaughn, the book has already gettimg rave reviews, and Daniel is putting it straight onto the reading list for his students at Imperial College. Together, Daniel and Alex dig into the core principles of great marketing: how to set meaningful goals, measure true impact, build high-performance teams, and embrace AI without losing your strategic edge. In This Episode: Why Alex wrote Click Here and why the industry desperately needed a book that gets back to fundamentals, marketing measurement, and pride in the profession. The power of incrementality: How to run meaningful tests, avoid vanity metrics, and prove real value to your CEO and CFO. Why goals are not the same as metrics and how mixing them up can derail your marketing efforts. The importance of awareness: Why most businesses fail because people simply don't know they exist. Marketing mix matters: How one newspaper mention outperformed every digital channel—and why the basics still beat the buzz. Mediocre marketing + great conversion = success: Why broken funnels kill campaigns, no matter how brilliant your creative is. How Meta builds defensible growth : What sets their marketing apart, from deep integration with product and engineering, to AI-powered insights. AI's real impact on marketing jobs: A breakdown of the three kinds of disruption AI will bring, and why the marketers who embrace it will thrive. Paper planes, transparency, and unexpected beginnings: Hear how Alex's nerdy hobby turned into a viral website, and why he publicly shares his university grades to inspire others. Key Takeaways: Get back to basics: Clear goals, good data, and fundamental models (like the funnel) still win. Measure what matters: Metrics are not goals - incrementality is everything. Focus on defensibility and scale in your marketing channels, don't waste time on things that can't grow. AI won't replace marketers - marketers who use AI will replace those who don't. Be transparent and human: Success doesn't require perfection, it requires clarity, curiosity, and continuous learning. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/alex-schultz-interview-click-here 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

Far beyond a productivity hack or sustainability trend, the regenerative mindset offers marketers and leaders a framework to design work, creativity and impact that helps build value. You'll have to listen to find out about the Goose! Drawing from systems thinking and marketing strategy, Daniel and Ciaran challenge the "hustle at all costs" mentality and instead champion a more humane, resilient and adaptable approach to digital marketing. In This Episode: What is a Regenerative Mindset? Understand the key difference between sustainability and regeneration - why one aims to sustain the status quo and the other aims to restore, replenish, and grow. Rethinking Productivity and Growth Explore why traditional productivity models are failing marketers in the age of AI, information overload, and fragmented attention, and what to do instead. AI as a Regenerative Tool Rather than using AI to do more, faster, Daniel and Ciaran explore how AI can help reduce cognitive burden, fuel creativity, and foster experimentation when used mindfully. Designing Regenerative Marketing Systems Discover how regenerative principles, such as reciprocity, interdependence, and feedback loops, can help build more sustainable, and effective marketing strategies. Tools, Mindsets and Micro-practices From digital decluttering to reflective learning and systems thinking, the hosts share practical approaches to integrating regeneration into your professional life. Key Takeaways: Regeneration is not about working less, it's about working in flow with better results and less burnout Marketers must go beyond campaign thinking and start designing ecosystems of value and renewal Rest, reflection and curiosity are not luxuries, they're strategic assets A regenerative mindset helps you lead through complexity and adapt with clarity The future of digital marketing isn't just AI or data, it's resilience, systems thinking, and human-centred creativity. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/regenerative-marketing-mindset-reimagining-marketing-and-leadership 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, hosts Daniel Rowles and Ciaran Rogers return with a fresh round of insights and hands-on tools to help digital marketers adapt and experiment in the evolving AI-driven marketing landscape. From Google's AI Max campaigns to the explosion of generative engine optimisation, Daniel and Ciaran unpack the shifts happening across search, paid media, and SEO. This isn't just another roundup of shiny tools, this episode explores how to think strategically about the role of AI in search, the real impact on your organic performance, and the mindset required to stay ahead of the curve. What's Inside This Episode: AI Max Campaigns in Google Ads Discover how Google's new AI-powered campaign structure is changing the game. It's not just another bidding strategy, it's an integrated layer that leverages keywordless signals, context, and user behaviour across Google properties to personalise campaigns. Learn why separating these into siloed budgets might actually hinder performance and what you need to consider before rolling out. The Vanishing Organic Click While impressions are up, clicks are down. Daniel shares Target Internet's own data showing a drop in organic click-through rates and explains why Google's AI-generated answers, Reddit posts, and video content are pushing traditional organic listings further down the page. LLM Refs and the New SEO Frontier With AI overviews, ChatGPT, and other LLMs becoming key discovery engines, how do you make sure your brand shows up? The hosts explore LLMRefs, a tool that shows how different brands are ranking across major AI models, and reveal just how fragmented and competitive this new landscape is. Structured Data, Schema & the Knowledge Graph Daniel and Ciaran highlight the importance of schema markup and entity relationships in Google's Knowledge Graph, using tools like the Knowledge Graph Explorer to demonstrate how Google perceives your brand and its connections. If you're not surfacing in the right contexts, it could just be due to a missing link, literally. Search Engine Optimization ≠ Generative Engine Optimization The hosts challenge the idea that SEO principles remain unchanged in the world of AI. With so many variables, location, devices, user intent, history, and model-specific behavior, your approach needs to be more agile and nuanced than ever. Key Takeaways: Performance Max and AI Max are now core to Google Ads - understanding signals and context is essential Organic traffic is declining, but impressions may still rise - CTR is the new battleground You can't game the system anymore with a few smart keywords; LLMs require strong content, schema, and reputation The tools are out there - you just need to experiment, validate, and iterate Don't fall into the trap of "a little knowledge" - simplifying complex changes leads to bad decisions AI models aren't clairvoyant - you need to structure and declare your content clearly 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/tips-and-tools-special 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles and Ciaran Rogers explore one of the most transformative shifts in digital marketing: the arrival of ChatGPT Agent and the rise of agent-based AI. No longer just about generating content, AI is now taking action on our behalf, logging into websites, filling out forms, analysing data, creating content, and even posting to platforms like LinkedIn. It's here now, and it's changing how marketing teams work from the ground up. Daniel shares his firsthand experiments with ChatGPT Agent, from connecting it to Canva to create and publish carousel posts, to testing its ability to analyse his entire LinkedIn history and recommend strategies for future content. While the possibilities are jaw-dropping, the hosts also explore the risks, security concerns, talent pipeline challenges, and the long-term implications for marketing roles. In this episode, you'll learn: What agent-based AI really is and why it's different from traditional AI chat tools How ChatGPT Agent combines deep research, web browsing, and autonomous task execution Real-world test cases, from generating content to posting directly on LinkedIn Why prompt quality and structure are more important than ever The security and compliance risks of connecting agents to business systems How agent-driven automation could replace many junior marketing tasks Why agility and learning culture are now critical for businesses to survive disruption The ethical and strategic questions marketers need to face around job design and human oversight The discussion goes beyond technology to look at the human side of digital marketing. Daniel and Ciaran debate the future of junior roles, how companies can avoid gutting their talent pipelines, and why brands that lean into humanity, creativity, and trust may stand out in an AI-driven landscape. Key Takeaways: ChatGPT Agent is a genuine step change, going from AI that suggests, to AI that does. Marketing teams can gain huge efficiency, but must double-check outputs and guard against overreliance. Security is now a critical concern, as agents gain access to business-critical systems. Junior marketing roles are at risk, companies must balance efficiency with long-term talent growth. Building an agile learning culture is the best defence against AI disruption. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/chatgpt-agent-and-the-future-of-digital-marketing 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, hosts Daniel Rowles and Ciaran Rogers explore one of the most pressing questions facing marketers today: what does SEO look like in a world dominated by AI search and generative answers? With Google rolling out AI Overviews and AI Mode, and tools like ChatGPT and Gemini changing how people search, the rules of SEO are shifting fast. Some publishers report traffic drops of up to 60%, while others in e-commerce are holding steady. So is SEO really dead, or just evolving into something new? Daniel and Ciaran dig deep into what's happening, separating hype from reality and providing clear, practical advice for marketers trying to adapt. They explain why understanding Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) and AI Overviewsn (AIO) is critical, and how you can stay visible when clicks are disappearing. What you'll learn in this episode: Why AI Overviews are changing user behaviour, and pushing organic results further down the page How share of voice and brand sentiment are becoming as important as traditional ranking factors Why advocacy and positive online mentions may now trump old-school keyword tactics The growing importance of Wikipedia, Reddit, and forums in shaping AI-driven answers Why updating and referencing your best content is more powerful than ever How no-click searches are rewriting what "success" looks like in SEO Practical ways to benchmark your visibility Why prompt-like queries and longer conversational searches are the new normal How to build trust through Google's E‑E‑A‑T principles (Expertise, Experience, Authoritativeness, Trustworthiness) The Future of SEO Episode Mindmap The hosts also explore pitfalls to avoid, from snake-oil SEO sales pitches to rushing into poorly thought-out Wikipedia pages that could backfire. They emphasise a smarter, evidence-based approach: focusing on authenticity, advocacy, and quality content that's updated, referenced, and truly useful. Key Takeaways: SEO isn't dead, but competing for the top three AI-sourced links is tougher than ever. Building advocacy and brand mentions is critical to visibility in AI search. Quality and authenticity (with evidence and references) beat quantity every time. Think conversational: searches are getting longer, more natural, and more complex. Following Google's E‑E‑A‑T framework is the best hedge against AI-driven disruption. If you're a marketer, publisher, or business owner trying to make sense of the shifting SEO landscape, this episode provides both clarity and actionable steps to future-proof your strategy. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/the-future-of-seo 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles is joined by Brendan Kane, viral strategist and author of One Million Followers, for a deep dive into the art and science of making content go viral. Going viral often feels like marketing mythology,something bosses ask for, but few can explain or deliver. Brendan, however, has built a career proving that virality isn't luck. It's repeatable, measurable, and rooted in storytelling structures that have worked for decades. Brendan shares the behind-the-scenes thinking that led to his experiment growing an audience of 1 million followers in 30 days, starting from scratch, without a team, celebrity status, or advertising budget. More than a vanity metric, the project was a proof-of-concept for a framework that now helps brands, creators, and entrepreneurs reliably generate massive reach and meaningful engagement. In this episode, you'll learn: Why qualitative analysis - not just views and clicks, holds the key to repeatable success The power of storytelling formats like "Man on the Street" and "Two Characters, One Light Bulb" How to match your brand's resources and personality to the right format Why volume isn't the answer, and what quality actually means in the age of AI and infinite content Why originality is overrated, and how proven formats unlock creativity instead of limiting it How even "boring" industries like tax, insurance, and leather craftsmanship can thrive on social media The truth about "frequency myths" and how creators burn out chasing quantity over story Why format mastery trumps trend-chasing—and how sitcoms, Spielberg, and social media are more alike than you think Brendan also breaks down his format-matching process, built from over 10,000 hours of research and analysis of 300+ viral content structures. His agency works with individuals and brands to identify the storytelling structures that resonate most with their audience, and helps them build repeatable, on-brand content that doesn't just go viral, but converts. This conversation flips conventional marketing wisdom on its head, challenging the obsession with originality and encouraging marketers to focus on structure, story, and strategic authenticity. Key Takeaways: Virality isn't random, it's engineered through proven creative models Storytelling formats provide containers for creativity, not limitations Format mastery enables faster growth and deeper audience trust Business outcomes must be baked into your content strategy from day one Social media isn't just another channel, it's the ultimate storytelling platform 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/how-to-go-viral 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to Daniel's monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles sits down with copywriting and AI expert Kerry Harrison to explore one of the most exciting—and often misunderstood—areas of artificial intelligence: AI-powered copywriting. Together, they dive into how Anthropic's Claude AI compares to tools like ChatGPT and Gemini, and why Claude is quickly becoming a favourite for writers who care about tone, style, and ethical AI. Kerry, a seasoned copywriter and trainer, shares her hands-on experiences using Claude to create high-quality marketing content. She explains how Claude's intuitive interface, stylistic flexibility, and alignment with ethical AI principles make it a uniquely powerful tool for communicators, marketers, and brands. But this isn't just a tool review. It's a masterclass in how to approach AI copywriting strategically. Daniel and Kerry explore a human-first methodology called the AI Sandwich, a practical framework for combining human creativity with AI efficiency. They tackle big questions about authenticity, originality, and prompt engineering, and show how to avoid the cookie-cutter feel that plagues so much AI-generated content. Highlights include: Why Claude's tone of voice and writing capabilities often outperform other models for consumer copy How to train Claude on your own style and get responses that reflect your brand's voice How to use Claude's Projects feature to build custom tools like tone checkers, newsletter editors, and interactive customer personas A breakdown of the AI Sandwich Methodology (Human → AI → Human) for crafting content that feels human, not robotic Techniques for fact-checking, editing, and sense-checking AI outputs to avoid hallucinations and blandness How Kerry uses Claude for marketing strategy, persona creation, positioning, and ideation Tips for integrating Claude with Gmail and calendar tools to improve time management and workflow efficiency This episode is packed with actionable ideas, whether you're a content creator, strategist, marketer, or business owner. You'll learn how to write better prompts, extract more value from AI tools, and remain fiercely authentic and creative in an age of digital automation. Key Takeaways: Train AI on your tone of voice to stand out from generic outputs Use Claude's extended thinking and reasoning models for strategic ideation Human guidance (before and after AI) is critical to compelling content Projects in Claude can act like custom GPTs tailored to your exact needs Staying human, thoughtful, and ethical is still your biggest advantage 💡 Whether you're new to Claude or already exploring AI content workflows, this episode will give you a fresh, grounded, and strategic perspective on what's possible, without losing your creative soul in the process. 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/ai-copywriting-and-claude 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to Daniel's monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter

In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel Rowles explores one of the most unexpected but powerful business case studies in modern branding: Taylor Swift! Joined by Kevin Evers, Senior Editor at Harvard Business Review and author of There's Nothing Like This. Kevin dives into how Swift's career offers a masterclass in brand strategy, audience connection, and long-term business thinking. Why does a global superstar in a notoriously cutthroat industry continue to outperform and outlast her peers? According to Kevin, it's not luck or fandom - it's strategy. Drawing on insights from his newly released book, Kevin breaks down the key inflection points in Swift's 20-year career. From turning down a major label at age 13 to preserve creative control, to executing one of the boldest rebranding and ownership moves in music history with her "Taylor's Version" re-recordings, this episode examines how Swift embodies the core principles of marketing, product-market fit, and customer obsession. Daniel and Kevin unpack how Taylor Swift: Identified a niche audience when the data said it wasn't viable Built trust and intimacy into her brand from day one Embraced user-generated content and fan communities to expand reach Navigated multiple brand pivots without losing authenticity Took complete ownership of her brand and intellectual property Continues to evolve while staying aligned to her audience's needs They also explore how her fandom operates as a distributed marketing engine, elevating everything from live streams to lyric analysis and decoding hidden clues. With references to startup thinking, customer experience design, and even parallels with Jobs-to-Be-Done theory, this conversation turns a pop icon into a blueprint for brand building at scale. Whether you're a marketer, entrepreneur or brand strategist, this episode offers rare insight into what it takes to build something culturally durable, and fiercely customer-centric. Key Takeaways: Brand clarity trumps market data when paired with conviction Fan communities can become your most powerful marketing asset Ownership and authenticity are strategic decisions, not just personal ones Pivoting is easier when you've built long-term trust Obsessing over your audience is a competitive advantage 📥 Access the show notes, tools, and links at: https://targetinternet.com/resources/strategy-branding-and-taylor-swift 📩 Join the free newsletter for access to Daniel's monthly live sessions: https://targetinternet.com/newsletter